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Surely just bring the mask mandate back now?

612 replies

Maskedtonigh · 15/09/2021 08:20

They are an easy measure that are no real hardship and could help (even if just in a small way) suppress this virus surely we should just bring back our mask mandate now?

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changingstages · 17/09/2021 15:12

@Againstmachine

I will certainly continue to wear a mask, but bear in mind that if everyone does their bit we are far less likely to have severe restrictions later in winter

I did my bit and wore a mask when it was law. And as said they didn't prevent restrictions being introduced last winter twice.

I don't owe it to anyone to wear a mask, where is this debt that I owe.

Most didn't care about the vunerable in previous years why all a sudden they care.

Why do they care about the vulnerable 'all a sudden'? I'd hazard a guess it's something to do with the pandemic that wasn't there in previous years.
puppeteer · 17/09/2021 15:12

@herecomesthsun:

“you'd think that by now people would have accepted the scientific consensus that they are quite helpful”

Maybe, if there really was consensus.

But what’s happened is that’s there’s a few studies showing marginal effect. A bunch of common sense saying “obviously”, and a whole raft of politics making it — up until recently — very difficult for anyone with a reputation to dissent.

We need not only consensus, by also decent studies, and good levels of efficacy.

Only thing we have that for is FFP3 masks — they actually work well. But for some reason no one is interested in pushing them.

Whammyyammy · 17/09/2021 15:13

@Stuffin

Wearing a mask in England is a personal choice.

Why can't people understand that choice means just that. Some people like me choose not to wear one and I don't care whether others do or not.

And looking around a lot of other people feel the same in RL.

I put up with them when it was law but curtailed my spending and stopped going out and now it isn't law those that want masks who don't feel safe then perhaps you need to do similar or just accept that others choose not to use one.

100% nailed it. People seem to forget its a choice and force their opinions on to you, more so on MN. I've binned my masks, but it doesn't bother me if I see people wearing them. I really don't see the argument here. Its not mandated to wear them, so why do people on both sides get all hot and bothered about each other? Regardless of whether you think they help, you're doing your bit.... its not mandated.... its a choice.

God help anyone that said anything to me in person for not wearing one

Againstmachine · 17/09/2021 15:14

Why do they care about the vulnerable 'all a sudden'? I'd hazard a guess it's something to do with the pandemic that wasn't there in previous years.

But they didn't care during Flu season previously.

changingstages · 17/09/2021 15:15

@Againstmachine

Why do they care about the vulnerable 'all a sudden'? I'd hazard a guess it's something to do with the pandemic that wasn't there in previous years.

But they didn't care during Flu season previously.

The last flu pandemic was 1968. So I don't think you can use that to defend your statement.
changingstages · 17/09/2021 15:16

oh wait, I forgot about the 2009 swine flu. That was a relatively mild one though, and certainly where I worked at the time (a very popular tourist attraction) there were a lot of measures brought in to protect vulnerable staff members.

GoldenOmber · 17/09/2021 15:21

rather than legislation if possible

well, I’d be fine with that. We have other public health discussions that talk about what people could and should do while stopping short of “and you have to by law”. And things that are required by law should have firmer criteria on the ‘how long do we need this?’ line than things that are just recommended.

puppeteer · 17/09/2021 15:29

[quote frazzledali]@puppeteer

Methinks perhaps you just want everyone to think like you do.

Happy for anyone to think what they want. When it starts impacting on public health, I'd like them to act for the greater good. I tell you what I think everyone should agree with me on, though: anyone who says 'methinks' is an absolute melt.[/quote]
Oh my. That was quite a response for someone so bored of the discussion.

So: think what you want, but do what I say.

You certainly seem to know what’s best for us. Thanks mum!

GoldenOmber · 17/09/2021 15:31

But what’s happened is that’s there’s a few studies showing marginal effect. A bunch of common sense saying “obviously”, and a whole raft of politics making it — up until recently — very difficult for anyone with a reputation to dissent.

We need not only consensus, by also decent studies, and good levels of efficacy.

I think perspective on this changes depending on how much of an issue people find it to wear masks personally.

If you’re in the “I’ll do this as long as necessary but I hate the sodding things and want them gone at the first opportunity”, then you’d understandably want to see a fairly high standard of evidence for governments legally mandating them.

But if you’re of the “really what’s all the fuss about, it’s only a bit of cloth, barely even notice I’m wearing it and I’ve saved a fortune on lippy” view, then it’s fine if the best evidence is “it might help a little bit” because there’s very little cost to you doing it.

Like, I don’t think handwashing is that effective against covid but I’m happy to do it lots anyway because it’s no trouble and it’s probably helping prevent other illnesses spreading. For many people I think masks fall into that category - whyever would you not, when it’s so easy?

If you do struggle with or really dislike masks, though, like me, then other people saying “of course we should be legally mandated to wear these for now and the foreseeable future because I personally don’t have a problem with them” comes across as a bit tone-deaf.

UsedUpUsername · 17/09/2021 15:32

@Maskedtonigh

They are an easy measure that are no real hardship and could help (even if just in a small way) suppress this virus surely we should just bring back our mask mandate now?
Cloth masks don’t work and wearing a respirator is not ‘easy’ for most.
MarshaBradyo · 17/09/2021 15:44

@Stuffin

Wearing a mask in England is a personal choice.

Why can't people understand that choice means just that. Some people like me choose not to wear one and I don't care whether others do or not.

And looking around a lot of other people feel the same in RL.

I put up with them when it was law but curtailed my spending and stopped going out and now it isn't law those that want masks who don't feel safe then perhaps you need to do similar or just accept that others choose not to use one.

It is a choice I agree

I’ve noticed a big drop lately. Not sure why now as legal mandate has been dropped for a while. I think the front of mind idea to wear one is reducing. I’d say this area was quite high too - when seeing other posts I always thought so

frazzledali · 17/09/2021 15:44

I'm not bored of the discussion @puppeteer - I find it a bore that the same, very few voices pop up again and again and again. I commented because I was alarmed at first when reading the threads on here because it seemed like there were SO many anti-maskers (or, free facers, if you prefer, though it's hard to imagine anyone preferring it as it's pretty wanky). And then realised that, no, there aren't, just a few bores wanging on.

I do think everyone should agree that anyone saying 'methinks' is a melt, though. You've got me there.

MarshaBradyo · 17/09/2021 15:50

Quite a few people don’t wear them these days irl so is it really that rare?

Againstmachine · 17/09/2021 15:50

The last flu pandemic was 1968. So I don't think you can use that to defend your statement.

I said flu season not flu pandemic so your post makes no sense.

And regularly flu kills 50,000 or more in this country last one was only about 4 years ago.

frazzledali · 17/09/2021 16:32

Makes perfect sense as I said:

Why do they care about the vulnerable 'all a sudden'? I'd hazard a guess it's something to do with the pandemic that wasn't there in previous years.

We vaccinate to protect the vulnerable in flu season, normally. My daughter got her flu vaccination yesterday for precisely that reason. The death toll from the last five flu seasons in England is 56,461. Are you referring to the 2018 flu season? There were around 22,000 deaths associated with flu in that year in England. I appreciate the toll for the whole of the UK will be higher, but given that we're standing at 118,000 deaths involving Covid in England so far, it doesn't really seem comparable.

457 people died in the 2009-10 swine flu pandemic, and as I said, there were some public health measures, including a public awareness campaign and an increase (or an attempt to increase...) ITU capacity. But flu is not the same as a coronavirus, so public health strategies will have to be different.

What part of that doesn't make sense?

Againstmachine · 17/09/2021 16:40

The bit doesn't make sense is you turned a flu year into last pandemic in 1968 when I never mentioned the word pandemic.

My point is people pretend they give a toss about vunerable but in reality they don't.

Againstmachine · 17/09/2021 16:43

And to answer from ons

Very high levels of flu were seen in 1999/00, when there were 48,000 excess winter deaths

Winter 2009/10 was exceptionally cold and yet had an average number of excess winter deaths at 26,000

Excess winter deaths spike in 2014/15 at 44,000.

ADreadedSunnyDay · 17/09/2021 16:47

@frazzledali
Actually there were over 50,000 excess deaths in England and Wales only during the 2017/18 winter session. Over a 1/3 of these were respiratory disease. The link to the report is here
www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/excesswintermortalityinenglandandwales/2017to2018provisionaland2016to2017final

frazzledali · 17/09/2021 17:41

@Againstmachine

The bit doesn't make sense is you turned a flu year into last pandemic in 1968 when I never mentioned the word pandemic.

My point is people pretend they give a toss about vunerable but in reality they don't.

Yes... but I'd mentioned the pandemic, so it didn't come out of nowhere, did it? I very much give a toss about the vulnerable as my daughter is CEV. You're right that many don't care about the vulnerable, definitely - which is why CEV children have been thrown under the bus with few mitigations in schools. However, we do vaccinate against flu to protect the vulnerable - that's precisely why we vaccinate schoolchildren.

Neither 1999/00, 2009/10 or 2014/15 were four years ago, which is what you mentioned in your post.

@ADreadedSunnyDay that's very interesting re: excess death figures in 2017/18 - though of course that's not all attributable to flu, as it says.

Anyway, as we know, Covid isn't flu - it has a much higher rate of mortality and infection - so we shouldn't get too caught up in flu figures.

MrsRLynde · 17/09/2021 18:17

@KurtWilde

I'm not an anti-masker, I wore one as and when required and still caught covid. But I do think the chances of getting the bulk of the population to wear masks again are slim. Especially those who are double jabbed as many of them now seem to think they're bulletproof.
The bulk of the population are still wearing them!
Peteycat · 17/09/2021 21:31

"18:17MrsRLynde

KurtWilde

I'm not an anti-masker, I wore one as and when required and still caught covid. But I do think the chances of getting the bulk of the population to wear masks again are slim. Especially those who are double jabbed as many of them now seem to think they're bulletproof.

The bulk of the population are still wearing them!"

No they are not.

HarrietPierce · 17/09/2021 21:51

"The bulk of the population are still wearing them!"

No they are not."

They are where I live.

milkyaqua · 18/09/2021 01:10

from the Guardian: This week England’s chief medical officer, Prof Chris Whitty, warned of a difficult winter ahead, saying: “Anybody who believes that the big risk of Covid is now all in the past … has not understood where we’re going.” He urged people to maintain cautious behaviours such as mask-wearing.

RunningOnFumes · 18/09/2021 06:52

@HarrietPierce

"The bulk of the population are still wearing them!"

No they are not."

They are where I live.

They are where I live too!
Hopeisallineed · 18/09/2021 07:21

They are where I live too!