All 12-15s to be offered single dose of Pfizer, CMOs decide

[bagofconkers]

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-coronavirus-vaccines-to-be-offered-to-children-aged-12-to-15-chief-medical-officers-decide-12402855

I feel so uneasy about this. What if they have already had Covid which has been proven to protect better than the vaccine. Both mine have had Covid with absolutely no problems at all except a slight headache for a day.

Having Covid is far better for long term and all round immunity than a jab. If mine had had Covid I wouldn't bother with the vaccine - for sure.

Technically the experts (JCVI) did not recommend the vaccine for this age group.

@SilverGlitterBaubles

Like with the 16/17 age group my main concern is about the lack of plan for second doses and what that will mean in terms of effectiveness if there is a larger gap than the recommended max of 12 weeks. Would it be better to wait until there is a plan for a 2nd so at least the gap between is not going to be several months? Also what will this mean in terms of travel or vaccine passports should they ever be introduced, as one dose is the same as good as unvaccinated.

One dose not being as good as two may not be true for this age group.

There's also research saying that if you've had covid already then you may only need one dose (and they are vaccinating on this basis).

This does give room for mutual recognition of differing policies between the uk and others who say one dose is fine in certain circumstances.

But someone has to get off their backside and do some diplomacy to get that sorted.

The BBC graphic upthread neatly illustrates that for 12 - 15 year olds a second dose offers much less benefit but does increase risk so I do think the decision is probably the right one.

I also think it shows why it was worthwhile holding out for more research because its such a finely balanced argument.

We would have had a lot more issues with side effects if we had ploughed ahead without that first.

I think its been handled badly in explaining this and the JCVI decision makes the messaging as clear as mud to many who don't understand this stuff well.

But yeah on balance its sensible.

I pity all the school secretaries who will be receiving an email ping from the expected UsForThem WeWillNotConsent ⚡⚡⚡Call To Actions ⚡⚡⚡

😂

@bumbleymummy

Technically the experts (JCVI) did not recommend the vaccine for this age group.

But did you read and understand the reasons why?

They stated the benefits of the vaccine outweigh the risks. Which is good.

One of the reasons against recommending it was the disruption to education that vaccination programme would cause if done in schools, and another was “children may have a mild fever after the vaccine which will cause them to miss some days of school.” Much like covid then, or a cold, or the flu vaccine. It doesn’t seem like a huge reason why not to vaccinate, certainly on medical terms.

@FlorenceWintle

I would absolutely agree to have it if I thought it would prevent further disruption to their education. And that is what they are giving as one of the reasons to recommend it but they’re not explaining HOW. It was the bubbles and household isolation that was causing the disruption (lockdowns aside) and they’re no longer a requirement.

How many common colds and other viruses are in circulation?

A child will have to isolate until negative PCR test, potentially 2 - 3 days at a time, even if well enough to attend school, if they have symptoms.

This is disruptive to education, and could be repeated several times per term.

Yes, I did Beware. Did you? Not sure why you chose to pick the ‘mild fever’ reason and ignore the myocarditis and ‘substantial uncertainty’ part.

“The available evidence indicates that the individual health benefits from COVID-19 vaccination are small in those aged 12 to 15 years who do not have underlying health conditions which put them at risk of severe COVID-19. The potential risks from vaccination are also small, with reports of post-vaccination myocarditis being very rare, but potentially serious and still in the process of being described. Given the rarity of these events and the limited follow-up time of children and young people with post-vaccination myocarditis, substantial uncertainty remains regarding the health risks associated with these adverse events.”

Disruption to schools could be minimised by changing their current policy on testing and isolation.

A child will have to isolate until negative PCR test, potentially 2 - 3 days at a time, even if well enough to attend school, if they have symptoms.

Is this requirement going to change based on a single dose of a vaccine that does not stop transmission of delta?

[quote Mojoj]@HandyGirl76 we both know what I'm talking about. Scientists have clearly stated there is no benefit to giving THIS vaccination to children.[/quote]
Lie.

@bumbleymummy

Disruption to schools could be minimised by changing their current policy on testing and isolation.

Changing it from what to what?

At the moment, as far as I see in England it's "Please jolly well stay at home if you have confirmed covid, if you'd like to. You don't have to find out, because you could just say no to testing, and thats your choice as the Great British Public".

What do you propose its changed to?

There is no easy answer and thinking /worrying about it has given me a headache.

Spoke to DC over dinner.

14 year old adamant he isn't having vax, and tbh he has likely had covid (many opportunities to catch it, and sadly lots of isolations). He shared a desk with a child in a double lesson in a classroom with no windows, who tested positive that eve.
He had a child in his bedroom (window open) for several hours who tested positive the next day.

12 year old is more unsure. We will have to look into it some more.

Yes, I did Beware. Did you? Not sure why you chose to pick the ‘mild fever’ reason and ignore the myocarditis and ‘substantial uncertainty’ part.

You know I did bumbley

Given that the risks of myocarditis are higher after covid than after the vaccine, and, importantly, knowing that my son’s heart has been affected by covid, I can bump that one down my list of worries. Reported cases of myocarditis after the vaccine, on the whole, seem to last a week. Covid damage has affected ds’s heart for a year now. Which one should I be more worried about again?

And also, “thanks” to my son, I know that there is also “substantial uncertainty” about the long term effects of covid (I’m seeing some of them in real life, after all). It’s known that covid can affect the brain, the lungs, kidney, heart. DS and I have the fun prospect of seeing exactly how much covid is going to affect his health in the long term.

It just seems not quite right to be concerned about the long term effect of the vaccine (which is of course a valid concern!) but not at all bothered about the long term effects of covid, when it’s been shown that even asymptomatic cases can show damage post-infection.

I can appreciate that people who haven’t seen what covid/long covid can do to kids can be more blasé about it, but people disregarding it is very frustrating. Even Chris Whitty, as I posted upthread, says that covid is not a benign disease in children. I would imagine that knowledge has also factored into the final decision.

@bumbleymummy

A child will have to isolate until negative PCR test, potentially 2 - 3 days at a time, even if well enough to attend school, if they have symptoms.

Is this requirement going to change based on a single dose of a vaccine that does not stop transmission of delta?

Give it a rest on this front

A single vaccine decreases the likelihood of a child getting infected and subsequently passing it on. Yes the effect would be larger with the two dose regimen, but this doesn't negate the benefits of a single dose (particularly on top of the immunity from a previous infection).

You have posted multiple times saying vaccines don't "stop" transmission, ignoring the responses every time. A small reduction in many many teens will add up to large population benefits.

No one has to be vaccinated, including teens. But there's a rationale for offering it to this age group.

mine likely wont have it yet

id have been more inclined if they could have both due to travel benefit but right now more disruption likely from the vaccine itelse f- half my work were ill for day or so from the vaccine. If vaccinating kids only saves 1 day per 20 kids (said on bbc news earlier) then i expect the normal side effects of the vaccine will cause more than that.

I was gine but many i know were ill

also the ranted on about missed days and hundreds of thousands of kids off etc - we aren't even having contact solations so no idea were all this disruption si coming from!

@DumplingsAndStew

Fantastic.

I wonder if they'll be on track to offer it at the same schedule as the flu vaccine in secondary schools (although we have to arrange to have it done outwith school which isn't until after the school rounds are done)

I wonder if this will help my teenager who has been too anxious to attend school since the end of last year.

Teen DD's school have people coming in to do flu vaccine (drops in nose, no needles) next week.

Her year has had 6 test +ve over the weekend after 3 days at school (and another 10 sent home as close contacts)..

So happy about this!!

dumpling

testing of asymptomatic kids is what needs to stop and several scientists have come out in favour of that today

madcats why are close contacts being sent home as thats no longer policy?

Glad it's being offered
Most kids will follow their family way of thinking be it no vax or vax.
It's a great excuse for the propergander extremists on both sides with too much time on their hands to shout & bother the police

Remember at the beginning of all of this: we all were staying in to protect the old/ granny etc

Young people weren’t affected by COVID at all back then especially not kids.

I was thinking about this today. How that narrative has changed.

@Watapalava

dumpling

testing of asymptomatic kids is what needs to stop and several scientists have come out in favour of that today

Asymptomatic testing is voluntary. I assume anyone who doesn't want to do it isn't doing it.

@Blessex

Oh gosh I was only going to get them vaccinated to help with travel. This won’t help with travel as you need two jabs.

And me; this is worse as Presumably they will end up having three doses!

@Dustyboots

Remember at the beginning of all of this: we all were staying in to protect the old/ granny etc

Young people weren’t affected by COVID at all back then especially not kids.

I was thinking about this today. How that narrative has changed.

Everything looks very obvious in retrospect - and no credible scientists were stating either of those things even at the start of the pandemic.

It's a novel virus, you learn as more data is accumulated. People seem to confuse this with being deliberately lied, when in reality it's always the case that guidance will change as the situation progresses. Take the new variants that have emerged - things that were true in March 2020 are no longer true now. It's not "goalposts" moving, it's just the reality of living through a rapidly developing pandemic.

Similarly to all the "goalpost" moving comments, the situation is what is is.