All 12-15s to be offered single dose of Pfizer, CMOs decide

[bagofconkers]

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-coronavirus-vaccines-to-be-offered-to-children-aged-12-to-15-chief-medical-officers-decide-12402855

I think the benefits out weigh risks with my asthmatic 15 year old and shes keen to have have it.

However I reiterate I don't feel the government has done a good job selling the concept vaccines to kids.
Theres no real incentive as they don't have self isolate untaxed as close contact.
Whitty says even with some having jabs school maybe disrupted.
Those maybe travelling abroad see relatives not necessarily holiday may find a half jabbed teenager not useful within Europe and other countries.

I still want see data on how effective half jabbing teenagers are..
I assume evidence based on labs tests and modelling as we hardly been doing it long enough have any real data and other countries giving young people 2 doses.

I don't feel in this case mass immunisation in school is appropriate.
As some anti vaxxed and even some sat on the fence will have concerns about schools coercing kids into having jab against parents wishes or presenting all the facts.
This will further damage relationship between parents and schools which is not good since covid that I feel like I no longer trust school as they not declaring postive cases so my faith in schools is damaged already due to government shoddy policy.

@BewareTheLibrarians

Teenage decision making is a very clear cut process… www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/health/teenagers-vaccine-decisions-based-entirely-on-pissing-off-parents-20210914212035

😂😂

For those who don't wish their teenager to have the vaccine
Please do return the consent form with the option that you do not consent. This makes it harder for your child to consent for themselves against your wishes. Do not think that just not returning the form is of equal standing, it's not.

Yes, because any parent who decides not to vaccinate their child must be getting their information from ‘anti-vaxx’ propaganda’ . And so it begins…

@gogohm

Instead they will get on with vaccinating all the kids whose parents actually understand medical evidence and consented rather than relying on anti vaxxed propaganda

That's unfair. The conversation, both official and casual, has been very difficult and mixed on this subject. The number of parents and carers who are just unsure will outweigh the truly Anti-vax by a massive margin.

Parents do still have the right to be involved in making these decisions for their children. By discussing Gillick competence, I just wanted to make it clear that there is a legal precedent and official process for your child's ability to override non consent.

So kids are to offered the jab at drop in centers from Monday here in Scotland but they need to be with parents. Said they will then roll it out in schools for those who didn’t go to drop in. It will be hard for children to get vaccinated without their parents permissions. Our drop in is over half an hour away and not a bus route.

[quote DumplingsAndStew]@gogohm

Instead they will get on with vaccinating all the kids whose parents actually understand medical evidence and consented rather than relying on anti vaxxed propaganda

That's unfair. The conversation, both official and casual, has been very difficult and mixed on this subject. The number of parents and carers who are just unsure will outweigh the truly Anti-vax by a massive margin.

Parents do still have the right to be involved in making these decisions for their children. By discussing Gillick competence, I just wanted to make it clear that there is a legal precedent and official process for your child's ability to override non consent.[/quote]
If the margin is too small for JCVI to say go ahead then surely the pp can see it’s on the edge of yes / no. Unless the JCVI gets the ‘anti vaxx’ label too. I doubt it though

If a parent signs the form and says they do not want their child to have the vaccine, and the child says they do want it, they'll be very stupid to go ahead and give it in my opinion. I doubt they would. Why knows?!

@AlixandraTheGreat please provide some evidence to back up your assertion that "...VAERS data is primarily consisted of vexatious anti-vaxer reports, vastly outweighing any medical reports."

Luckily year 7 ds is going to be 12 next June. I wouldn't let him take the jab because he already had covid. It was headache and temperature for half a day.

@RedToothBrush I think your comment is slightly (and I'm sure unintentionally) misleading, when you say "Parents simply dont understand how or why the JVCI and CMOs can make different assessments because they don't understand the different processing and assessment methods which are both valid and both solely about the health benefit to children receiving the jabs and them alone (not a wider impact on society)."

The JCVI said clearly that the health benefits were negligible when balanced against the risks. The CMO's looked NOT just at the health benefits, but also things like POTENTIAL reduction (not elimination) of disruption to education, which is why they edged the decision just over the line in favour. The health benefits alone were deemed insufficient to proceed upon, by both the JCVI & the CMOs, as I read them.

@HBGKC let’s not forget too that the vaccine has also been approved for this age group by the MHRA. It’s a point I’ve made in another thread that the messaging from the government/public health is so weak right now that people don’t understand why the JCVI and the MHRA disagree, and lots aren’t even aware that the vaccine has been approved by the MHRA (for safety, quality and effectiveness of the vaccine in 12-15 yr olds)

How are parents supposed to pick apart the reasons behind why the MHRA & CMO said yes, but the JCVI said no? That’s not directed at you by the way, just a general wail into the void.

MHRA age group approval link:
www.gov.uk/government/news/the-mhra-concludes-positive-safety-profile-for-pfizerbiontech-vaccine-in-12-to-15-year-olds

@3asAbird why would there be a risk of schools coercing pupils - teachers won’t be giving teenagers the vaccination.

Parker I'm sure it will be mentioned in assemblies/form periods/newsletters.

And so it begins, you’ve already got posters calling people anti-vaxxers who are understandably nervous about the vaccine

Instead they will get on with vaccinating all the kids whose parents actually understand medical evidence and consented rather than relying on anti vaxxed propaganda

It will go exactly the same way as adults being called anti-vaxxers, stupid, covidiots etc. Surely as a parent it’s our job to do what we feel is best for our children. I’m happy for others to have their children jabbed if that’s what they want but it’s going to become an issue just like it is with adults if they don’t. Also the government will absolutely bring in vaccine passports at some point, of that I’m certain, so will it be fair to deny a child access to events, travel etc, because their parents don’t want them to have a vaccine because they are worried about risks when the benefits are so borderline? It’s the bigger picture in all this and potential loss of liberties that is so worrying. I don’t particularly want the booster but am (just) in the age group but feel if I don’t have it then I will be eventually stopped from doing things I want to do. It’s just not right. I think we are on a very slippery slope with all of this because it won’t stop here.

@beware. Wasn’t that approval given back in June. More data has come available as more countries have rolled it out to the younger age groups.

To be fair Turquoisesea elsewhere online I have seen much more abuse aimed at parents who have decided to get their children vaccinated than at those who don’t accusing them of being abusive and not caring about their children. There are certainly idiots on both sides of the argument.

@Turquoisesea I couldn’t agree more. And in fact I tried very hard to make the same argument in the early pages of this thread and got nowhere. People can’t see it.

@HBGKC it won't be mentioned anywhere in a schools. Nothing to do with teachers at all ! Decision for parents and their kids.

elsewhere online I have seen much more abuse aimed at parents who have decided to get their children vaccinated

On this thread too. Reported and deleted.

@turboface - same for all 4 of my DC aged between 7-12 at the time. In fact, I think my 7 year old complained of feeling a bit rubbish for about 3 hours max. My 12 year old was the longest with a headache and slight temp overnight and half of the next day.
I think our experiences are the most common but they are not the most reported.

@mumsneedwine of course it will be mentioned! How will the logistics be sorted out otherwise? Which pupils/classes/years will go when, and in what order? The vaccinators will only jab whichever child is put in front of them - BY THE SCHOOL. Of course the logistics will be mentioned.

[quote bumbleymummy]@beware. Wasn’t that approval given back in June. More data has come available as more countries have rolled it out to the younger age groups.[/quote]
Well, that may be the answer, but we don’t know, as the communication around it has been shit. I think if the vaccine was suddenly “dangerous” in the MHRA’s view, they have a responsibility to update their findings, but they haven’t. They still consider it “approved” which suggests that they’re happy with the new data too. We should know that for sure though, in an ideal world.

This is what I mean by the communication being shit though. It’s leaving people guessing, again.

@Turquoisesea

And so it begins, you’ve already got posters calling people anti-vaxxers who are understandably nervous about the vaccine

Instead they will get on with vaccinating all the kids whose parents actually understand medical evidence and consented rather than relying on anti vaxxed propaganda

It will go exactly the same way as adults being called anti-vaxxers, stupid, covidiots etc. Surely as a parent it’s our job to do what we feel is best for our children. I’m happy for others to have their children jabbed if that’s what they want but it’s going to become an issue just like it is with adults if they don’t. Also the government will absolutely bring in vaccine passports at some point, of that I’m certain, so will it be fair to deny a child access to events, travel etc, because their parents don’t want them to have a vaccine because they are worried about risks when the benefits are so borderline? It’s the bigger picture in all this and potential loss of liberties that is so worrying. I don’t particularly want the booster but am (just) in the age group but feel if I don’t have it then I will be eventually stopped from doing things I want to do. It’s just not right. I think we are on a very slippery slope with all of this because it won’t stop here.

Absolutely - I’ve said all along that this is the most frightening part of the last 18 months for me. I truly believe that there is every possibility of not being able to go anywhere with your children (all children not just 12+ Because you better believe this vaxx is coming for younger kids next) if you decide the benefits are too marginal. No restaurants No travel No non essential shops No education? The loss of liberty is 100x more frightening that covid ever was or will be

[quote HBGKC]@mumsneedwine of course it will be mentioned! How will the logistics be sorted out otherwise? Which pupils/classes/years will go when, and in what order? The vaccinators will only jab whichever child is put in front of them - BY THE SCHOOL. Of course the logistics will be mentioned. [/quote]
Logistics will be sorted by SLT and the kids will probably get an email telling them where they have to go and which period. No biggie and no mentioning.

@Howshouldibehave thanks for explaining that teachers won't have anything to do with vaccinating. Never have. All done by school nursing service. And letters via email.
I certainly won't be giving advice ! As a teacher I'll have no clue who has had cannons or not. None of my business. Although neither was supervising testing but I ended up having to do that.