BMJ: Teachers not at greater risk of hosp'n, and lower risk of severe disease, than general population

[Kokeshi123]

www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2060?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_term=hootsuite&utm_content=sme&utm_campaign=usage

Unlike previous studies, this one actually looked at periods when schools were open and compared like-with-like for those periods.

Compared with adults of working age who are otherwise similar, teachers and their household members were not found to be at increased risk of hospital admission with covid-19 and were found to be at lower risk of severe covid-19. These findings should reassure those who are engaged in face-to-face teaching.

This should not be taken to mean that we should do schooling with no mitigations whatsoever--I'd be in favor of doing indoor masks for kids and teachers till the winter is over if it was up to me, and ventilation is always a good thing anyway. However, at least this should provide some reassurance for teachers and families. And in my opinion, this kind of thing should settle the argument on having any further school closures; mitigations are one thing, but schools absolutely must remain open IMO.

@AICM

If you know that, you’ll know many people don’t have a choice about working at home / hybrid working. There’s no office to go back to!

Colleague number 7 in three weeks has now tested positive. He's scared stiff as he's CEV with a young family. Anyone trying to tell me school staff are not more at risk of catching covid...

Many people are complaining about being told to go back by their bosses. Why? It's safe enough now.

@AICM

Many people are complaining about being told to go back by their bosses. Why? It's safe enough now.

No complaints from me, I've been chomping at the bit to go back to doing my job with some resemblance of normality.

Yep everyone I know who had COVID-19 either worked in schools/nurseries or NHS
3 NHS in various roles
3 classroom Assistants and one Nursery Nurse.
I also don't believe immunity is that high in kids. Of my dds school year of 200 there were maybe 5 cases. Same in other years too. Although someone will be along to say they had it but didn't know no doubt.
I also don't see anything wrong in referring to children as the unvaccinated population as that is what they currently are.
The new advice fo ECV was to meet Outdoors and avoid the unvaccinated. Pretty damn hard for school staff and ECV kids and also ECV parents with younger kids.
Pretty worried for these groups tbh. Also very worried about the effect this will have on dds education especially year 11 and year 13. Well even more especially year 13 as she needs top grades for University.
Remember that cohort never sat a public exam and missed lots of contact time in year 12 due to either her teachers being off or her teacher being pulled to cover for a teacher in a Lower year.
So if we are just banking on everyone getting it than we are looking at a lot of missed contact time if every teacher is ill for say two weeks on average.
Totally bonkers that you can go to school if a person you share a room or even bed contracts COVID. Obviously not sharing a bed hopefully once you know but before. Fine in other circumstances but not for household contacts.

It absolutely baffles me that you are continuing to insist the sky isn’t blue. Teachers unions advocated for the closure of schools.

I guess you could add that they did this for the benefit of the teachers but some will never accept that. They will argue black is white and white is black. I really wouldn't bother with them, not worth it.

@MyLeftFootVMyRightFoot

It absolutely baffles me that you are continuing to insist the sky isn’t blue. Teachers unions advocated for the closure of schools.

I guess you could add that they did this for the benefit of the teachers but some will never accept that. They will argue black is white and white is black. I really wouldn't bother with them, not worth it.

teachers on here (what we were orginally talking about) - wanted mitigations

teachers' unions - wanted to discuss all the options for mitigation & etc. But the script that they wanted to close schools came - again predominantly - from right wing journos wanting to make them into villains. In real life- they appeared to be pussy cats, rolled over and everyone worked their arses off to keep the schools running...

You are the ones arguing that black is white.

@lightattheendofthetunnel2021 where do you get the figure of 24 from please?

Sorry as I read 25 in the 1st 12 months so could be a little higher.

MyLeftFootVMyRightFoot

There is only one point at which you could argue that unions wanted schools to close.

This was in January when they wanted all schools to fit under the same policies of closing as the government had decided that some schools shouldn't open due to the rise in numbers.

But the point wasn't for all schools to close only those outside of London that had the same or higher numbers of covid.

So if you squint a bit, then make some shit up they wanted all schools to close.

At the same time the government wanted schools to start testing all pupils.
The unions said that not enough time had been given to sort this out and suggested that two week break would be sufficient not only to put this in place but as a fire break for covid numbers so schools could then remain open.

But at this point no-one said that teachers should stop teaching and that schools would remain open for keyworkers.

But you do you

Why are posters still trying to claim that the unions never called for schools to be closed and it is just some smear campaign by the press?

This is an October press release from (one of) the union:

neu.org.uk/press-releases/close-schools-national-lockdown

I am expressing no opinion on the lockdowns and what happened to schools, but it is a fact that unions did make calls at a various times for schools to be closed / circuit breakers (to the majority of pupils).

@AfternoonToffee did you actually read that ? It calls for a 2 week half term rather than 1. Might have been a good idea to listen ?

Been in school today trying to help site staff to find a way to get windows to open in rooms where they don't. No luck (unless we use a hammer). Good luck school staff.

Yes I did read it, did you? The first bit on the heading actually says "NEU calls for schools and colleges to be closed during 4 week national lockdown." (not the 2 week firebreak "too late for that")

I can't read the whole thread, sorry if it's been mentioned... School has been closed in dire weather and cold periods eg from January to March.
December was quite mild where we've are so the windows could remain open, still outdoors and masks worn.

So to really see how at risk teachers are I think one would need them in truly cold weather, indoors without ventilation, and no masks etc.

@Payproblems

I can't read the whole thread, sorry if it's been mentioned... School has been closed in dire weather and cold periods eg from January to March. December was quite mild where we've are so the windows could remain open, still outdoors and masks worn.

So to really see how at risk teachers are I think one would need them in truly cold weather, indoors without ventilation, and no masks etc.

Why don't you try teaching in a freezing classroom with no masks and let us know how it goes.

🤷‍♀️ teachers have tried. Do not moan if schools have to close again due to massive rise in infections.

AfternoonToffee

If you read it the union calls for schools to be included in any national lockdown.

I think that this was when scientists where calling pupil 'vectors of transmission'.

@AfternoonToffee

Why are posters still trying to claim that the unions never called for schools to be closed and it is just some smear campaign by the press?

This is an October press release from (one of) the union:

neu.org.uk/press-releases/close-schools-national-lockdown

I am expressing no opinion on the lockdowns and what happened to schools, but it is a fact that unions did make calls at a various times for schools to be closed / circuit breakers (to the majority of pupils).

We were originally talking about the teachers on here and not the unions.

Ror example

For the last time- All I tried to do was point out that many teachers advocated for school closures. Which is the truth.

Well, the teachers on here clearly wanted mitigations and for schools to stay open.

I know what the discussions were on here last September - teachers wanting safe conditions to go back. And they were proved right in due course.

Then the teaching unions got wheeled on. (that's a different topic, notice)

I'm not an expert on those, as not a teacher etc.

but the unions certainly were taking a strong interest in mitigations & safe working conditions last September. Ss they certainly should have been - it's their role.

There was a smear campaign by the press, that's right.

There were also concerns from a lot of people - including SAGE - from September on asking for a circuit breaker.

My strong impression (as a non union person) was that the unions were looking for mitigation rather than school closures first off.

Maybe we can agree that this is a reasonable account of the overall picture?

(a bit more nuanced than "never" and "just")

for example, and So

Does it matter when it was? The claims are that the unions never said that schools should close, but they did.

Anyway let's hope school return (with pupils) goes ok - whether that was last week, tomorrow, or later this week. (Thursday in my case)

Wednesday in my case. Gavin Williamson is not reassuring me...
www.theguardian.com/education/2021/sep/04/dear-gavin-williamson-now-we-know-what-your-plans-are-for-covid-safe-classrooms-er-um

@AfternoonToffee

Does it matter when it was? The claims are that the unions never said that schools should close, but they did.

Anyway let's hope school return (with pupils) goes ok - whether that was last week, tomorrow, or later this week. (Thursday in my case)

Yes it matters, in so far as it is worth bothering with the truth.

I said "predominantly" not never - regarding the unions calling for mitigations rather than closures. Unions are there to discuss stuff. They discussed a load of stuff, did fuck all in terms of militant behaviour and the teachers went on delivering education. All through the last 18 months, some of the time during their holidays. Teachers shutting schools was never an issue.

Why does it matter? Well, the teachers were the unsung heroes of lockdown, pilloried by a hostile press, on the front line in a pandemic. In the NHS we expect to be dealing with health emergencies and still soldiering on, teachers not so much.

I think they were wonderful, the ones I know anyhow, agonising over the kids' transitions, coming up with creative solutions, & trying to teach in class and teach on line, sometimes at the same time. My kids' teachers went above and beyond.

I also think that we need to support teachers if we want our kids' schools to remain staffed, and not knock them unfairly.

So yes I do mind if the papers write lies about them and people distort the events of last year.

Have a good return to school we're back less than 10 hours from now.

@herecomesthsun
Thank you very much. It was so nice to read something kind about schools and teachers.

You know this is reminiscent of the whole sneery Lockdown Lover label for people who in any way supported Lockdown.
Most just knew Lockdown was necessary but of course would have preferred if it wasn't necessary.
I think it was the same with school closures in January. Nobody wanted it but it was a necessary evil.
Lockdown definitely screwed up my physical and mental health to a degree especially trying to homeschool two ND kids but with no school place as. no EHCP
Incidentally CAMHS went virtual which basically meant we got no support and this was for far longer than schools being open for vulnerable a KW kids.

@Howshouldibehave

This should not be taken to mean that we should do schooling with no mitigations whatsoever

Well, that is unfortunately the plan, so it seems that

this should provide some reassurance for teachers and families

just isn’t the case.

We should be wearing masks inside, vaccinating any 12-15 who wants to be done, not pushing whole school assemblies, not sending household members of positive cases into school, but we aren’t doing any of those things. The government has instead decided to throw money at extra attendance officers for schools and is ‘rolling out’ co2 monitors. I don’t need a co2 monitor to tell me that my classroom is poorly ventilated-I want to be able to do something about it. I don’t need guidance telling me that I should only open windows if there’s an outbreak in my class and IF nobody’s thermal comfort is compromised!

No, I’m not feeling reassured.

They are advertising on local authority staff union websites offering £500 a day for people to do consultancy work on attendance - going in and challenging the schools to make sure children are in school. Guaranteeing between 50 and 100 days work a year. So £25,000 for 50 days work and £50,000 for 100 days work. It is disgusting. This us what happens when local authorities have budgets cut and no longer have staff at officer level to do this kind of work. They would never have paid these ridiculous salaries but governments are happy to pay consultancy rates. They are saying local authority officers can apply and do the jobs alongside their local authority post - the local authority has to release them for those days, further depleting local authority capacity. It is utterly disgusting.