BMJ: Teachers not at greater risk of hosp'n, and lower risk of severe disease, than general population

[Kokeshi123]

www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2060?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_term=hootsuite&utm_content=sme&utm_campaign=usage

Unlike previous studies, this one actually looked at periods when schools were open and compared like-with-like for those periods.

Compared with adults of working age who are otherwise similar, teachers and their household members were not found to be at increased risk of hospital admission with covid-19 and were found to be at lower risk of severe covid-19. These findings should reassure those who are engaged in face-to-face teaching.

This should not be taken to mean that we should do schooling with no mitigations whatsoever--I'd be in favor of doing indoor masks for kids and teachers till the winter is over if it was up to me, and ventilation is always a good thing anyway. However, at least this should provide some reassurance for teachers and families. And in my opinion, this kind of thing should settle the argument on having any further school closures; mitigations are one thing, but schools absolutely must remain open IMO.

I’m confused though how people working from home now need to “get on with it”. Why? Our team is integrated into the community mental health team, shall we just go and expose people now for the fun of it because teachers are expected to do their jobs and teach?

Because we don’t just teach (I wish we did) We also have to safeguard, support and try to stop our pupils from harm. It’s been nigh on impossible to do that without the support from social care/CAMHS/Adoption and Fostering etc. Especially Sept to Dec 2020.

So many times, posters have a go at teachers on Mumsnet for not caring about the physical and mental health on young people in lockdowns when we talk about safety mitigations in schools but the social care team seem to get a free pass in this area. I know funding is low. I know those in social care try their best despite shoddy working conditions. However, they were vaccinated very early on and worked from home at times when school staff were not.

I can still do my job just as well from home.

If you still work in social care then I have to disagree with this based on the fact that I have many young people who desperately need face to face support from their social care team and have been denied this even when there haven’t been lockdowns. If you don’t work in social care in your new job then I apologise.

In our area, the social care workers we usually worked with in terms of supporting the families in our school who are in need did not do any house (or school) visits March - September 2020.

There may have been other teams who did do in-person work, and there may have been a level of emergency that could have generated an in-person visit, but those situations that 'in normal times' would have led to in-person visits by social workers into home or school or both did not.

They did offer online support remotely, and since last September have offered a more limited than before, but definitely present, level of in person contact.

I would not, on this basis, say that all social care in my area worked from home, but the specific team that we historically work most with did work from home for tasks and in situations that would previously have always be done in person.

For the last time- All I tried to do was point out that many teachers advocated for school closures. Which is the truth.

So it would be great if

• that were the last time
• people stopped repeating this and
• accepted that, as a body, teachers were trying to keep schools open safely this time last year

(and actually, they were substantially proved right by the unfolding of events over the school year 2020-2021)

There were certainly some schools that advocates for,online learning in the weeks up to christmas because of the spread and rise in cases.

Schools weren't closed ever and even the second set of keyworker only there were very strict rules around delivery of the curriculum.

The government actually threatened to take those schools to court. Then locked them down a week later and so they couldn't have xmas with their families.

There is always such emotive language around this issue thanks to the government spending £3m on propaganda about schools.

But it's very important to remember that teachers never ever asked for schools to close. To close would have meant providing no education what so ever. To close like pubs who provided no food or drink service.

What was suggested was mitigation's and that was like those places of mass gatherings like pubs etc to work in a different way.
So chops used click and collect or delivery. Pubs did take always and delivery.

Schools suggested online when cases were spiralling out if control or rota of in school and hybrid.

Never did teachers or the unions suggest not educating children in some form or another.

And remember for teachers suggesting a rota and hybrid learning that is actually far more difficult for them. So it was about keeping everyone at minimal roast and certainly not about an easy life. Plus many has to provide the online learning whilst in the school building because schools don't have the budget to provide this for staff.

I never wanted schools to close, but I did want sensible mitigations. Those didn’t happen, so schools ended up closing to many pupils.

@NeverTalkToStrangers

Surely we're now resigned to absolutely everybody catching Covid apart from a few hermits and CEV people with stringently managed isolation? All school children and teachers in person will catch Covid over the next school year, which means that mitigation measures are only cost-effective for short term periods like exams.

Teachers who are temporarily vulnerable due to pregnancy or medical treatment need protection, possibly by extended sick leave or transfer to remote duties, which will be expensive and an administrative nightmare but not impossible. Permanently CEV teachers were always at high risk and in the absence of a vaccine which prevents transmission far better than the existing ones I don't think it's possible to keep them permanently safe in a classroom environment.

I'm pregnant and still expected to sit in a crowded hall with other teachers wearing no masks or socially distancing) been in another crowded hall with over 150 pupils and about 50 staff and nothing has been mentioned about sanitising hands or tables between lessons for the pupils I teach. I don't want to get Covid for many reasons (before my pregnancy I was fit and healthy but now I'm classed as CV) but I don't want to miss my antenatal appointments as if I get it I can't attend them. I know I have been double-vaccinated and I'm not in my third trimester, but it is still bloody scary. When I have been out and about during the summer, I have been keeping my distance from people and wearing my mask when indoors.

@herecomesthsun

For the last time- All I tried to do was point out that many teachers advocated for school closures. Which is the truth.

So it would be great if

• that were the last time
• people stopped repeating this and
• accepted that, as a body, teachers were trying to keep schools open safely this time last year

(and actually, they were substantially proved right by the unfolding of events over the school year 2020-2021)

It absolutely baffles me that you are continuing to insist the sky isn’t blue. Teachers unions advocated for the closure of schools.

It doesn’t matter how many times you insist they didn’t do that, they did.

@Bizawit

It doesn’t matter how many times you insist they didn’t do that, they did.

No they didn't.

It is also down in black and white on the very very many threads from last year.

The vast majority of posts from teachers were asking for mitigations so that schools wouldn't close.

Simples.

[quote Chillychangchoo]@AICM

I worked in social care throughout the pandemic very much on the front line. We did just get on with it. I now work from home in another role and we are still being encouraged to work from home. Suits me!!

I’m confused though how people working from home now need to “get on with it”. Why? Our team is integrated into the community mental health team, shall we just go and expose people now for the fun of it because teachers are expected to do their jobs and teach?

I can still do my job just as well from home.[/quote]
A Mumsnetter has self'declared herself to be just as efficient when working from home.

These is no higher standard of proof.

No they didn't

Bonkers 🤷🏼‍♀️

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/inews.co.uk/news/education/schools-close-lockdown-teaching-union-insists-744349/amp

I mean there are 100s of articles one could link to.

2 of the articles in your screenshot are from the 4th January. If I remember correctly this was the first day back for many schools, and by the 5th January Boris had agreed to close schools again I say close, but actually many schools had the vast majority of pupils in

Apologies I see it's actually the 4th and one is the 2nd, but the point still remains.

Ah the unions.

The unions also were predominantly asking for mitigations in schools up until the point at which there was a spike leading to the government having to close schools.

I'm not a teacher myself, so not directly involved in any teaching union, but the discussions as reported were largely about how to manage the situation safely.

For example

www.unison.org.uk/news/2020/09/government-must-keep-schools-open-safe-education-unions-say/

Government must do more to keep schools open and safe, education unions say

It's quite interesting looking back over the (very negative) reporting of the unions from last year.

The unions knew that the situation was very concerning and that more needed to be done - but there wasn't much they could do to change it.

They thought about striking for safer conditions - but they didn't strike.

They suggested flexible learning - but they didn't push for it very hard against the government, when it seemed that this would be unpopular with parents

They made all manner of reasonable suggestions while being vilified by the press (and on here).

And then the teachers all went back to work, in really quite difficult conditions, and did their best to hold things together in the middle of a pandemic.

predominantly
Do we have something by way of a teeny - tiny admission? I’ll take it 😂😅🙈.

So would you agree that the unions were predominantly trying to keep schools open and safe?

because I would also take that

@AICM

Did you know know many organisations - including health and social care - had home working way before the pandemic? In fact, many local authorities and the NHS noted long before Covid that the costs of maintaining buildings was prohibitive.

@herecomesthsun

So would you agree that the unions were predominantly trying to keep schools open and safe?

because I would also take that

I don’t think I can agree that they were predominantly trying to keep schools open, but I do acknowledge that they were calling for a range of extra precautionary measures aimed at mitigating spread.

[quote Mickarooni]@AICM

Did you know know many organisations - including health and social care - had home working way before the pandemic? In fact, many local authorities and the NHS noted long before Covid that the costs of maintaining buildings was prohibitive.[/quote]
Yes.

CAHMS were pitiful even before covid hit, but state education also does not foster emotional well-being in young people when they’re deemed as nothing more than data points. In fact the whole system is diabolical. Run by absolute narcissists nine times out of ten.

Personally I’ve worked in a few different areas now and find them all as terrible as each other. All of the public sector is fucking shite !!!!

Working in the third sector now but integrated into an NHS MH community team and so far so good. Although im grateful not to be directly working within the NHS. So far a lot more pay and a lot less stress. Their staff turnover each month though is the highest it has ever been. My job is now always going to be from home as the charity has saved so much money on overheads. So it’s not just my personal opinion on efficacy. The team has still hit their targets.

covid just exasperated issues in the public sector, but i do think kids absolutely need a more normal time this year and to reiterate what I said previously, teachers are not at a higher risk of adverse covid outcomes in comparison to other professions. Yes they may get covid, like a lot of people working front line. It is what it is now. Virus is being a virus and that’s a learning to live with it attitude. I have worked front line (face to face) throughout this whole pandemic but feel grateful now we have the vaccine. That doesn’t mean we have forgotten about it.

Bizawit

You are confusing media reports of what teaching unions were supposedly saying with what actual individual teachers and other teaching/school staff were saying.

The two aren't necessarily the same thing.

@Chillychangchoo

CAHMS were pitiful even before covid hit, but state education also does not foster emotional well-being in young people when they’re deemed as nothing more than data points. In fact the whole system is diabolical. Run by absolute narcissists nine times out of ten.

Personally I’ve worked in a few different areas now and find them all as terrible as each other. All of the public sector is fucking shite !!!!

Working in the third sector now but integrated into an NHS MH community team and so far so good. Although im grateful not to be directly working within the NHS. So far a lot more pay and a lot less stress. Their staff turnover each month though is the highest it has ever been. My job is now always going to be from home as the charity has saved so much money on overheads. So it’s not just my personal opinion on efficacy. The team has still hit their targets.

covid just exasperated issues in the public sector, but i do think kids absolutely need a more normal time this year and to reiterate what I said previously, teachers are not at a higher risk of adverse covid outcomes in comparison to other professions. Yes they may get covid, like a lot of people working front line. It is what it is now. Virus is being a virus and that’s a learning to live with it attitude. I have worked front line (face to face) throughout this whole pandemic but feel grateful now we have the vaccine. That doesn’t mean we have forgotten about it.

So you're now working from home but think everyone who isn't just needs to get on with it...

Re CAMHS etc in schools

We have not yet had a single in-school visit from them since before March 2020. The waiting list is long. It was long before covid, not it's even longer.

Last term we had a handful of virtual meetings, but there were no initial assessments, no observations, etc.

The first appointment for an in person, though not in school, has just come through for a child who is in year 2 who was referred in reception for next month, so hopefully we are seeing a return to our children being seen and assessed.

Stop feeding, People.

Reasonable people who were posting through the pandemic know the truth. Ignore the desperate lies.