BMJ: Teachers not at greater risk of hosp'n, and lower risk of severe disease, than general population

[Kokeshi123]

www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2060?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_term=hootsuite&utm_content=sme&utm_campaign=usage

Unlike previous studies, this one actually looked at periods when schools were open and compared like-with-like for those periods.

Compared with adults of working age who are otherwise similar, teachers and their household members were not found to be at increased risk of hospital admission with covid-19 and were found to be at lower risk of severe covid-19. These findings should reassure those who are engaged in face-to-face teaching.

This should not be taken to mean that we should do schooling with no mitigations whatsoever--I'd be in favor of doing indoor masks for kids and teachers till the winter is over if it was up to me, and ventilation is always a good thing anyway. However, at least this should provide some reassurance for teachers and families. And in my opinion, this kind of thing should settle the argument on having any further school closures; mitigations are one thing, but schools absolutely must remain open IMO.

Yes-we were all rotad over Easter and there was no additional payment.

The NHS workers who accessed it at our school so they could work were hugely grateful.

We have to treat teachers better and stop ignoring their concerns

Completely agree. And not just with regards to covid but purely just about the state of education.

These people work fairly low paid jobs for their responsibility. The hours are long and demands ever increasing. Constant pay freezes.

I don't know how we've got to a point that the professionals teaching in schools are frequently insulted and abused for pointing out the truth of what goes on in schools.

Whilst people are ignoring despite the difficulties they are still their fighting for a better education for our younger generation.

It sends me into a rage every time I see "if you don't like it - then quit".
I'm pretty sure if these same people didn't have these teachers dedicating their lives to their children's education they'd have something to say about it.

The reason pupils are achieving great results despite the incompetence of government is because of the teachers. The same teachers they think should walk away and let their secondary school child be taught gcse by a PE teacher.

[quote Chillychangchoo]@itsgettingwierd

For free in Easter? Perhaps you should stop being such a martyr, it will not do you, or your colleagues in the profession any favours.

Failing that find a new head who likes to encourage a better work life balance, they do exist.[/quote]
Lots of people did it all over the country.

We were asked by the government to keep keyworker spaces open through Easter and the BH.

Each of me and my colleagues did 2 days each. Like many others did.

My HT wouldn't have made any of us. Bit of a jump to accuse her. It was something education staff were asked to do and most stood up and did it.

The same way most essential workers did those first few months. The NHS were living and working at the hospital when on the frontline.
I'm glad for those people who's lives they managed to save they weren't also called martyrs and told not to do it.

@Chillychangchoo

That’s why schools should never shut again.

Teaching was no more hazardous than many other professions and kids are overwhelmingly likely to be okay. Community mortality mitigated by a vaccine.

Time to get on with it now.

Schools are getting on with it.

It's time for all those still WFH to get back to the office now and get on with it now.

the teachers were advocating measures that would avoid schools having to close

They were advocating for safety measures in schools. When these weren’t implemented to their satisfaction, they advocated for schools to shut. Sorry but these are the facts. Please stop with the patronising/ passive aggressive comments and personal insults. It doesn’t bolster your argument or make you sound any more intelligent. It’s childish and mean.

Yes people can say “teachers advocated for schools to close but they didn’t want them to close”. Semantics. You say teachers hands were tied, I disagree . Maybe some teachers advocated for schools to close , with personal regret (I am not party to every teacher’s personal subjectivity), nonetheless they still advocated for schools to close, and that, in my view, was wrong.

I wholeheartedly reject you assumption that it was safety measures in schools (of the kind teachers were demanding) or school closures.

Please stop with the patronising/ passive aggressive comments and personal insults. It doesn’t bolster your argument or make you sound any more intelligent. It’s childish and mean

This was a general request directed at multiple posters.

Chillychangchoo

That’s why schools should never shut again.

I agree that "schools should never shut again", but if they do it will be because of the incompetence of the government and the groups such as us4them that have the governments ear, not teachers or unions.

@AICM

Why does it matter to you if people are working from home or the office? I’ve always worked in a hybrid way. I would write my reports anywhere and everywhere, as long as I adhered to confidentiality. I often typed notes in my car in between seeing clients to make good use of my time.

Bizawit,

I think the car safety analogy is a good one.

Say I get into a car as a passenger, and I find that the car seat isn't working.

I say 'Please can this be mended?'.

If the answer is 'no', the the response 'In that case, I am afraid that i cannot travel in this car for this journey' is not unreasonable.

HOWEVER, you are still misunderstanding the basic point. Despite advocating safety measures, despite knowing that the safety belt was broken, and despite saying 'This situation is so unsafe that a rational person would consider closure', the VAST majority of teachers turned up for work at the start of January for a single day, and union action had absolutely no impact on the Government's decision to restrict the numbers of pupils accessing schools from that afternoon - the medical and public health data did that.

And I also reiterate that this was the only day, in the entire pandemic, where it could be argued that union action had any impact whatever on school closures. Every other day of closure is solely due to Government action.

They were advocating for safety measures in schools. When these weren’t implemented to their satisfaction, they advocated for schools to shut

this is brilliant. It completely ignores the pandemic context in order to try to put teachers in the wrong!

Teachers were advocating for safety measures in schools (and this is a bad thing in a pandemic?)

When these weren't implemented to their satisfaction (when these weren't implemented at all and infection rates in school children spiralled out of control with impact on infection rates in wider society)

They advocated for schools to shut (the govt locked down society including schools to stop and then reduce a spiralling death rate caused, in part, by extremely poor management of the pandemic before Christmas)

I also understand that you don't consider that earlier and more effective mitigations in school - as advocated by teachers, and as practised in many other countries - could have affected the trajectory of the pandemic, in concert with other actions.

It might be instructive to compare the pandemic trajectory in terms of case numbers and mortality with those countries where more mitigations WERE in place in schools alongside other actions in the community. I haven't done the analysis, but it would be really interesting to compare case rates, emergence of variants etc in countries with stronger in-school mitigations during times of higher transmission in the community.

I also find the emphasis on unions in schools quite funny, given that another poster, who works in a university, has quite blatantly said that she has worked at home since the start of the pandemic, is showing her devotion to education by starting f2f teaching for the first time at the end of this month, but is striking regularly this year because of their union's focus on pensions.

Absolutely no criticism of that union on here. Teaching unions asking schools to follow their statutory health and safety responsibilities - no, no, how terrible....

@Bizawit

Please stop with the patronising/ passive aggressive comments and personal insults. It doesn’t bolster your argument or make you sound any more intelligent. It’s childish and mean

This was a general request directed at multiple posters.

Please stop posting ignorant comments that insult teachers (and re-write history?)

[quote Mickarooni]@AICM

Why does it matter to you if people are working from home or the office? I’ve always worked in a hybrid way. I would write my reports anywhere and everywhere, as long as I adhered to confidentiality. I often typed notes in my car in between seeing clients to make good use of my time.[/quote]
Because some of the organisations I have dealings with have not given me the service I'm paying for.

Please stop posting ignorant comments that insult teachers (and re-write history)

I’m doing none of these things.

Bizawit

I’m doing none of these things.

Thanks, I needed the laugh.

@Bizawit

Please stop posting ignorant comments that insult teachers (and re-write history)

I’m doing none of these things.

see @noblegiraffe's comment below.

You can rest assured that if this libertarian, money-obsessed, very right wing "pile the bodies high" government could have got away without the January lockdown, they would have done so.

There was at that point little choice to avoid a health disaster, just months before vaccines became available.

"the need to protect teachers’ safety" was never a major consideration in any of this.

Can you not understand that?

@Bizawit

Please stop with the patronising/ passive aggressive comments and personal insults. It doesn’t bolster your argument or make you sound any more intelligent. It’s childish and mean

This was a general request directed at multiple posters.

It would be nice in return if you stopped telling teachers what they wanted when they are telling you that wasn't what they wanted.

@Bizawit

Please stop posting ignorant comments that insult teachers (and re-write history)

I’m doing none of these things.

Bless you. You keep believing that.

It would be nice in return if you stopped telling teachers what they wanted when they are telling you that wasn't what they wanted

For the last time- All I tried to do was point out that many teachers advocated for school closures. Which is the truth.

Given that they advocated for schools to close, I find it disingenuous and misleading for people to say “no teachers wanted schools to close”.

I understand you can retort “they may have advocated for schools closures , but that’s not what they wanted”. But that is parsing in my view. Maintaining such a position depends on a belief / assumption that school closures were necessary and inevitable (because schools were unsafe etc). I don’t share those assumptions.

@AICM

I worked in social care throughout the pandemic very much on the front line. We did just get on with it. I now work from home in another role and we are still being encouraged to work from home. Suits me!!

I’m confused though how people working from home now need to “get on with it”. Why? Our team is integrated into the community mental health team, shall we just go and expose people now for the fun of it because teachers are expected to do their jobs and teach?

I can still do my job just as well from home.

During the first lockdown, many local schools did close completely, except for one small keyworker children hub.
Well that’s not closing completely is it?

I have teacher friends who did have an easy ride. They were bored! They’re hard working people and I know they’re great teachers. I still wouldn’t make sweeping statements about all teachers working from home and doing nothing etc because it’s my tiny experience,

I didn’t say social workers were doing nothing-that’s your interpretation. I have said that they were working but working from home in response to a poster saying none of them did. No assumptions made on my behalf here.

@Bizawit

It would be nice in return if you stopped telling teachers what they wanted when they are telling you that wasn't what they wanted

For the last time- All I tried to do was point out that many teachers advocated for school closures. Which is the truth.

Given that they advocated for schools to close, I find it disingenuous and misleading for people to say “no teachers wanted schools to close”.

I understand you can retort “they may have advocated for schools closures , but that’s not what they wanted”. But that is parsing in my view. Maintaining such a position depends on a belief / assumption that school closures were necessary and inevitable (because schools were unsafe etc). I don’t share those assumptions.

Noooo

This time last year a lot of people (not just teachers) were asking for safety measures to stop schools closing.

Up until the spike that closed schools, when a lot of people (including Mr Johnson and a fair number of teachers) were coming round to the idea that schools unfortunately needed to close.

So the situation had changed, in large part because there were no mitigations in schools.

On here, teachers wrote over and over again that they wanted mitigations and not school closures.

Keep up, it's not that difficult to understand!

@ChloeDecker

During the first lockdown, many local schools did close completely, except for one small keyworker children hub. Well that’s not closing completely is it?

I have teacher friends who did have an easy ride. They were bored! They’re hard working people and I know they’re great teachers. I still wouldn’t make sweeping statements about all teachers working from home and doing nothing etc because it’s my tiny experience,

I didn’t say social workers were doing nothing-that’s your interpretation. I have said that they were working but working from home in response to a poster saying none of them did. No assumptions made on my behalf here.

@ChloeDecker

You talked about social care working from home in your area. I doubt you know the ins and out, despite saying you work alongside social care.
I fully respect teachers are the experts of teaching and ways of working, so you should afford others the same respect. I think teachers do a very hard job in very hard circumstances and this was pre pandemic. I have immense respect for the skills and care. There’s a tiny minority of teachers on MN who aren’t doing themselves any favours by acting as though they know what goes on in other professions based on their very limited experience.

For the last time- All I tried to do was point out that many teachers advocated for school closures. Which is the truth.

Interestingly in real life I don't know a single teacher (or indeed anyone working in a school) who advocated for school closures.

For every teaching staff and other school staff, closures and lockdown had made their job much more difficult and more challenging. It wasn't in our best interest to be closed when we were doing far more work over lockdowns than when schools were open.

Unless you mean those who advocated for some form of Covid 'protection' and systems to help break the Covid risk within schools, like many other employers were able to get such as masks, distancing, etc. Yeah, I did know some teaching staff who'd have found those aspects useful esp in September 2020.