No vaccines for healthy 12-15 Yr olds

[Wellbythebloodyhell]

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-vaccines-will-not-be-recommended-for-healthy-children-aged-12-to-15-government-advisers-say-12398444

Is anyone else glad this potential decision has been taken away? I was very much undecided about vaccinating my older dc and now feel a bit of a weight has been lifted now its not something I need to consider.

Cases are so high in Israel (jabs for kids, boosters, lockdowns, school closures etc) that Sweden (no lockdowns, no jabs for kids, no boosters, kept schools open etc) is banning Israeli citizens from travelling there.

I can't understand why anyone would want to follow the example of Israel and not Sweden, and start jabbing teens!

It’s not a supply issue folks. We have ample evidence to be confident of that. There are plenty vaccines for kids and boosters. It’s really not that.

@NannyAndJohn

To those that are happy with this decision, you do realise that this makes another Lockdown even more likely, don't you?

Schools are completely fucked.

Completely fucked? What evidence do you have for this statement? Every study shows schools are in line with community spread. When only schools returned rates were fine. Children are not super spreaders of Covid 19

The risk is greater to children's (specifically boys) health with the vaccine than without it.
It is a no brainer, for me.
I really hope that Javid doesn't keep pushing to vaccinate healthy children, who will not benefit.
Extra vaccines should be going to unvaccinated adults and the vulnerable.

@Dauphinois

Some countries (Malta being one) insist on anyone over 12 being vaccinated, and entry is prohibited otherwise.

The vaccine should at least be available privately for those who want to travel, even if it's not universally offered, otherwise certain countries are completely out of bounds to teens. Awful if you've got family there.

I think this ultimately going to be the stumbling block.

A public back lash will be in the offing if the government dont then reach a deal with other countries over their rules - but if someone else is expecting its citizens to be vaccinated to travel or to enter certain venues then there isn't a cat in hells chance of a compromise. Cos sovereignty.

The current position will end up being untenable i suspect. We already have Jeremy Hunt who is chair of the commons health select committee saying we should just go ahead without JCVI recommendations.

I think that will make it even more difficult for parents, rather than easier - can you justify vaccinating your child when there is no health benefit to them but you might be able to go on holiday?

@trumpisagit

The risk is greater to children's (specifically boys) health with the vaccine than without it. It is a no brainer, for me. I really hope that Javid doesn't keep pushing to vaccinate healthy children, who will not benefit. Extra vaccines should be going to unvaccinated adults and the vulnerable.

Or Australians?

So grateful for the small window of opportunity for people to do lots of evidence based research.
Ask around and ensure your children are never doing something to protect adults.

@frozendaisy

The JCVI ruled on the individual risk/health of the child only. Not on community transmission, disruption to education etc etc.

This is just their recommendation based on very specific criteria, it is not necessarily the final decision as things stand.

Just have to wait and see.

yup, not only did they not rule on those things (which aren't in their remit) they specifically stated that they had not considered those things as not in their remit.

I’m pleased with the decision and think it’s the right one. I was very undecided about vaccinating my teen.
Gov could still decide to give go ahead for reasons other than health benefit though which I get but it’s answered my question about benefit to my teen - there’s not enough of one.

They weighed up the risks and benefits health-wise and found that the benefits didn’t outweigh the risk for healthy children.

You've not read the report, have you Bumbley?

www.gov.uk/government/news/jcvi-issues-updated-advice-on-covid-19-vaccination-of-children-aged-12-to-15

"For otherwise healthy 12 to 15 year old children, their risk of severe COVID-19 disease is small and therefore the potential for benefit from COVID-19 vaccination is also small. The JCVI’s view is that overall, the health benefits from COVID-19 vaccination to healthy children aged 12 to 15 years are marginally greater than the potential harms."

@noblegiraffe so the risks of a health intervention are greater than the harms...

I haven't cared enough to look, but I do wonder what sort of vaccine stockpile UK currently has.

This morning it was announced we were sending Oz 4m Pfizer doses so they can open the travel corridor to NSW for Xmas Then this afternoon came the news that unvaccinated COP26 delegates could ask for supplies.

With half of Europe/Israel/US vaccinating 12+ it is going to make overseas family travel interesting next year.

I am almost glad we all caught Covid at the start of August as I feel confident it will rip through schools by October.

Rest of the world seems ok with vaccinating 12-15 year olds but UK has what evidence that the rest of the world doesn’t, to say not to do it?

I wrote a lot of stats on a thread last night that got deleted as started by a troll, but:

Delta is different. Delta in classrooms is different.

I'm in the States, and southern states' schools have been in session since the beginning of August.

Pediatric covid cases are through the roof, and this is despite a healthy minority of 12-17 year olds having had the vaccine.

--Pediatric ICUs are full in many states and big cities.

--In Florida, there have been almost 64,000 cases of Covid in children under 12. 68 children per day are being hospitalized. That's the equivalent of about 206 per week in the UK.

--In Alabama, school-aged cases have doubled in less than a week. (It's worth noting that testing is very low as it's can be expensive over here.) In the UK, the equivalent would be 210,600 school children in two weeks.

---In Georgia, there's a tenfold increase in pediatric/school-aged cases than in August 2020.

I have hopes that the numbers will be better back home than over here, as the UK has better rates of vaccination amongst adults. But I should also say that the numbers above include up to 20% of 12-17s being vaccinated.

BBC News - Why vaccinating all teens is a difficult decision
www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58423152

Based on this, they have data on associated heart conditions due to the vaccine but no data on how covid may cause the same condition. Sounds like a very tricky decision and I'm not sure it's taken long covid into account. I'm assuming data on that is very thin on the ground too.

My ds is having his Jab tomorrow. He's 12. He isn't getting it to keep others safe. He's getting it because I'm concerned about the impacts of long covid.

“Taking a precautionary approach, this margin of benefit is considered too small to support universal COVID-19 vaccination for this age group at this time. The committee will continue to review safety data as they emerge.”

(I could keep going with Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, Tennessee, etc. But the point is there. These are places with variable mask mandates in schools, and the numbers are through the roof.)

(Sorry to spam: but the 64,000 cases in children under 12 in Florida have been in the last three weeks alone.)

Crazy decision.

I'm not in a rush for ds to be vaccinated because he had COVID this summer but any measure that's going to keep year 11s in school has to be worth considering. (Y11s are 15-16 year olds with some having their 16th birthday in summer 2022)

Yes because they are acting illogically after 18 months of fear inducing propaganda . Covid is serious for some , not for the majority as Chris whitty has repeatedly said . Children are not here to protect adults, we should not be imposing a risk of vaccine on them when the risk of covid is minute

I am relieved that the JCVI have obviously fought hard and long over this issue, it is an ethical issue also on many fronts, not only for health but in global fairness.

I’m not sure Jeremy hunt is always a good arbiter of right thing to do. I remember an interview on the Today show back last year where he was seriously suggesting putting police officers outside peoples homes to make sure they didn’t leave
He was very impressed with the China approach. He may have refined his views since but I was pretty shocked by what he was basically advocating.

[quote GiveMeNovocain]@noblegiraffe so the risks of a health intervention are greater than the harms...[/quote]
?? They've said the potential health benefits are greater than the potential risks.

I guess if the govt decides to add in 'needing 10 days off school when catching covid' to the mix, they might (will probably imo) decide it's a compelling argument.

They’re the experts in their field, not me. So I will accept their judgement. Just like we do on all other vaccination programmes.

@AllTheSingleLadiess

Crazy decision.

I'm not in a rush for ds to be vaccinated because he had COVID this summer but any measure that's going to keep year 11s in school has to be worth considering. (Y11s are 15-16 year olds with some having their 16th birthday in summer 2022)

It was considered… at great length. The conclusion they’ve come to is to not vaccinate that age group.