No vaccines for healthy 12-15 Yr olds

[Wellbythebloodyhell]

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-vaccines-will-not-be-recommended-for-healthy-children-aged-12-to-15-government-advisers-say-12398444

Is anyone else glad this potential decision has been taken away? I was very much undecided about vaccinating my older dc and now feel a bit of a weight has been lifted now its not something I need to consider.

Which part of my opinion was “sadly deficient in factual content”?

Or perhaps, why are we so reluctant to protect ours?

I wouldn’t think reluctance more not meeting set out criteria, which is right way to go.

It may still happen even with JCVI recommendation.

I’m pro parental choice on this btw but I do want it to be a choice without judgement or repercussions, even if I decide to go ahead.

step Why are you so angry?

You don't need to vaccinate your children. You can wait until many other people's children had taken the vaccine, and more data came in so you can feel safe for your children to take them, or not.

But I want my dc to take them. Simple. I don't think no one is advocating for other people's children to have it or not, except for people like you questioning the choice of parents who wants their children vaccinated.

@stepupandbecounted

Please produce and link the 'long term' safety records for mRNA. born

Short answer: You will struggle as they do NOT exist.

Oh, loads if you look. Here’s one summary.

ec.europa.eu/research-and-innovation/en/horizon-magazine/five-things-you-need-know-about-mrna-vaccine-safety

But you know - and I’m sure so do others - your request is completely unreasonable, and a diversionary tactic. I encourage anyone with doubts about the vaccine to look for themselves, or if they don’t want to, to have some confidence in the integrity of the researchers, developers and legislative authorities that have made them available to us.

Also on a pp about taking the risk for others I don’t feel like that.

More weighing up my perception of risk for dc and making decision for them alone.

If “decades of research and testing” is what you’re after:

But the development of mRNA vaccines against COVID-19 is no overnight success. In fact, they have a remarkable back story stretching back decades.

www.uab.edu/news/youcanuse/item/12059-covid-19-mrna-vaccines-how-could-anything-developed-this-quickly-be-safe

The science behind the new COVID-19 vaccines has not been rushed. In fact, these vaccines are building on decades of scientific research.

The story involves hundreds of people all over the world and highlights the importance of fundamental and applied research. Advancements in our understanding of messenger RNA (mRNA) and its potential for use in medicines, along with the creation of new technologies over the last 30 years, made these vaccines possible. Recent research on coronaviruses, in particular, made these vaccines effective.

cihr-irsc.gc.ca/e/52424.html

@Nappyvalley15

Thanks for that Guardian article. Shows only a handful of countries are vaccinating younger teens and there is hesitancy/controvers,y in those countries too. Also shows (as someone on here mentioned) in some countries it is to make up for the lack of adult vaccine take up which is morally dubious.

There is always hesitancy and controversy, people are people. I’d personally be suspicious of any article that didn’t mention this. But just because some people are hesitant or opposed to a vaccine doesn’t mean they’re correct. People can be opposed to lots of things for dubious and irrational reasons. The point is, those countries went ahead despite hesitancy and opposition because the evidence convinced them that it was the right thing to do.

Me answering the questions Marsha and Bumbley asked me is the best you can do to prove I am somehow forcing everyone to vaccinate children.

Seriously, it was not me that called people making a choice to vaccinate, ahoukd the choice arise sheep. Me calling that out is not bullying.

I have no idea why you are now banging on about unions. You are the one politicising all of this.

You don't think repeatedly telling people a vaccine is untested, and that outcomes could be fatal, is scaring people ?

I have no idea why you are now banging on about unions

I was wondering where this came from as well.

Teaching unions are pressing for vaccination in children, not to protect children, as they are already at ultra low risk, but to add an extra layer of protection for teachers no less, whom have already been double vaccinated but are still demanding more and more:

www.theguardian.com/education/2021/jun/04/school-leaders-say-pupils-should-vaccinated-as-matter-of-priority

And that is why when the see the same posters that were aggressively advocating for school closure, now seem to have switched to vaccines for children - for themselves I may add. Not for the kids.

It is insidious to start ramming a vaccine into younger children to appease and keep the unions quiet, but it seems Gavin is not big on ethics or morals and is not willing for this to be the hill he dies on. And so he too supports vaccine for dc mainly to shut the unions up, at the expense I may add of our children! Again!

So I will say it again, this is deeply political. It is not based on the health requirements of our children at all, but on a deeply flawed campaign to keep the schools open (and as vaccines do not stop the spread of covid, it is very unlikely to work) and to 'make up' the shortfall in the vaccine take up of the adult population.

It is deeply unethical.

I am speaking for the children and I feel passionately that an untested vaccine is not in their interests at all, unless they are CEV. They can not speak for themselves. Thank goodness for the JCVI.

@stepupandbecounted This is incorrect - but even if it was, how can you imagine in your mind that it's OK for the CEV kids but not the healthy ones? Just think about that a little more.

@stepupandbecounted

Teaching unions are pressing for vaccination in children, not to protect children, as they are already at ultra low risk, but to add an extra layer of protection for teachers no less, whom have already been double vaccinated but are still demanding more and more:

www.theguardian.com/education/2021/jun/04/school-leaders-say-pupils-should-vaccinated-as-matter-of-priority

And that is why when the see the same posters that were aggressively advocating for school closure, now seem to have switched to vaccines for children - for themselves I may add. Not for the kids.

It is insidious to start ramming a vaccine into younger children to appease and keep the unions quiet, but it seems Gavin is not big on ethics or morals and is not willing for this to be the hill he dies on. And so he too supports vaccine for dc mainly to shut the unions up, at the expense I may add of our children! Again!

So I will say it again, this is deeply political. It is not based on the health requirements of our children at all, but on a deeply flawed campaign to keep the schools open (and as vaccines do not stop the spread of covid, it is very unlikely to work) and to 'make up' the shortfall in the vaccine take up of the adult population.

It is deeply unethical.

It makes me uncomfortable to have this pressure

But I hope it isn’t the unions that cause CMOS to go ahead.

Teaching unions are pressing for vaccination in children, not to protect children, as they are already at ultra low risk, but to add an extra layer of protection for teachers no less

Which is entirely your interpretation of what that article says, not what it actually says. I encourage anyone to click the link and read it.

marsha education is something the JCVI has asked to be looked at. You would hope they would consult school leaders via their unions and other avenues , such as the highly intelligent and moderate leader of ASCL , Geoff Barton. They are stakeholders.

I hardly think , given past track records, that the union voice will swing anything - and union leaders will be presented and look at statistics and know a great deal about eg pupil absence and the educational impacts of covid. Whitty et al will also speak to other groups such as NERVTAG and come to a more in the round decision. At which point some people on various social media outlets might explode/implode/indulge in scare tactics/have a tantrum, I am guessing.

@Piggywaspushed

Have had covid at any point does not equal antibodies. I think the latest estimate is 50% but a lot of uncertainty is attached to that and it varies massively across the regions.

Can't read Telegraph link : paywall.

What do you mean? We all produce antibodies in response to a virus.

Do you mean that people don’t necessarily have antibodies above a particular threshold after infection? Even the ONS has pointed out in their antibody survey that a lower level of antibodies doesn’t mean that someone is not immune. In any case, there are several studies showing that antibodies above a certain threshold are detectable in the majority of previously infected people for 9+ months and a few, small, recent studies have detected them up to 12 months later. As time goes on we should have more info on that.

There isn’t a shortfall in take up in adults in the UK though, is there? We’re on 90% ish for first doses and about 80% for second. There might be a shortfall in the US, but I think we’re in a better position over here.

No, what I meant was the claim that 75% of people aged 15-24 have had covid is not the same as saying 75% have antibodies. Soem of these could be infections form quite some time ago surely?

Latest I saw was 50% with antibodies but with huge regional variations. There is a MN thread on that isn't there?

Yes, I’ve seen the 50% quote but I think that is irt 12-15 yos? It was in a BBC article. The ONS survey shows a high level of in 16-24 yo but that is from a combination of vaccination and infection. Obviously in the younger group it was purely from infection until recently.

People may not have high antibody levels if they were infected a while ago but they could still be immune.

I mean, on a personal level, I wasn't . It is something that needs greater investigation definitely and with levels of asymptomatic/undetected covid being quite high it's hard to know who ahs/has not had it. Nowhere near 75% of kids at my school, even if you assume 2/3 of cases might have been missed.

Surely 12-15 year olds is more relevant to this discussion.

What do you mean? We all produce antibodies in response to a virus

I think there’s a lower level of immune response that is inflammatory, and antibodies are not necessarily produced. I’ll try and find a link that explains it well.

OK, obviously lots of emotions running high!

Next question - what if the chief medical officers come back next week and also refuse to back the vaccine for this age group?

Will you still get your children vaccinated then?

If the CMOs refuse to roll out the vaccine to 12-15 year olds then how do you propose parents would get their children vaccinated? It wouldn’t be an option.

@Mumpud

OK, obviously lots of emotions running high!

Next question - what if the chief medical officers come back next week and also refuse to back the vaccine for this age group?

Will you still get your children vaccinated then?

If the cmo don’t authorise it then it won’t be available anyway.