Cases soar in Israel despite high vaccine uptake

[Shanghaisprize]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9951117/Israel-worlds-Covid-hotspot-0-2-population-catching-yesterday.html

Apologies for the source, but this looks a bit worrying - cases are soaring in Israel despite very high vaccine uptake. Serious Illness and deaths are down from the second wave, bit apparently rising sharply. Waning immunity is thought to a reason for this, yet in the UK we seem to be dithering around whether to introduce boosters.

With the already high number of cases, imminent back to school situation in England and lack of any mitigation measures, I'm worried. Anyone else?

Stop pretending that covid has gone away

That's the bottom line I think. But - a lot of people were doing that this time last year too, and look where that got us.

And as PP's have said - stop thinking that the vaccine is the only mitigation needed - it isn't, even if this ridiculous government would like you to think that.

@Milkbottlelegs

How many cases of measles do we have ? Barely any ?

Pretty sure measles cases have been increasing as vaccination rates have been decreasing. This has been widely reported in recent years.

Yes but my point is when vaccinated there is a very low level of measles so effectively stopping the virus circulating . This not the case with covid vaccinations

But we are not talking about the levels in Israel being caused by vaccination refusal. Other vaccines stop the general spread in the population . This does not as is proved in Israel . Therefore it’s pretty akin to a therapy not a vaccine

It's funny how people keep thinking Israel is the epitome of the heavily vaccinated country. It really isn't. See the chart.

It may have started off its vaccination campaign fast and early, but it stalled, partly because there are specific groups in Israelsome orthodox, I think also East Africanswho are refusing the vax in large numbers. These groups tend to live clustered together created critical masses for the virus to spread rapidly.

The most vaccinated countries are places like Denmark and Ireland, both of which announced in the past week or so that they are removing almost all restrictions very soon and will soon stop reporting cases.

@TheKeatingFive

I don’t think mercybooth sounds like she’s blaming medics at all,

But a medical service that only works if we shut down every winter isn’t ‘working’ at all. And ultimately lockdowns do more harm than good, even from a health perspective.

Yes, Covid has been a game changer, but if we want decent healthcare, we need to shell out more money for it. That’s the bottom line.

I agree with a lot of what you said in this post and the one above but I’m not sure that more money is the solution. We could run the service much better with the money that we already have. Currently, a lot of it is wasted. We’d basically be pumping more money into a ‘leaky’ system.

@Whichjab

How many vaccines are 100% effective?

Asking for a scientist...

The fault here lies with the government, in the language they used and the message they told. In addition vaccines have appeared to be 100% in this country, we vaccinate against childhood diseases and our children don't get them (I'm not saying they are 100% just how they appear to be)

Aside, the smallpox vaccination must be very close to 100% as the WHO announced it was eradicated.

I was thinking about this overnight.

I think you are right.
Those who are middle aged and maybe older, are essentially used to vaccinations being pretty much a cure.
My guess is many MPs think the same.

But those in the real know amongst them, those who were maybe warned, should not, as you say, have given the impression that the new vaccines were going to be the or a complete answer.

The vaccines are proving to be far from that.

@PrincessNutNuts - it's not low though is it? This time last year it was low.

Anyone who thought vaccines were 100% effective didn't pay attention.

If vaccine protection wanes, you could argue high rates now, while vaccine protection is still sufficient to avoid severe disease in most people, is a good thing - the more people whose booster is the real virus rather than a third jab, the longer a sufficient level of population immunity to protect against a huge increase in severe cases lasts. At least, that seems to be the approach we are going for!

Israel had its first Delta case found on the 7th July and has a lower vaccinated rate now overall than quite a few European places.

It is simply going through the Delta wave that everywhere else is going through.

They are just simply not further ahead in the process at all I am not sure why there is this assertion that they are?

@bumbleymummy that's factually wrong. The NHS is actually pretty efficient.
If you want more nurses, docs, physios, better equipment, funnily enough that requires more financial investment. If you want better staff retention, lower sickness and absence rates again you need more investment in staff facilities like restrooms, mental health provision, better staffing.... It's a vicious circle. Crap working conditions, understaffed wards equal unhappy staff more likely to burn out or leave. You want decent care actually look after your staff rather than just pay lip service, money needs investing rather than moved between areas.

@ManifestDestinee

Anyone who thought vaccines were 100% effective didn't pay attention.

Boris Johnson has declared that the nation is no longer resting on the hope of a return to normality by spring but instead has the “certain knowledge” that people can reclaim their lives, as he hailed the arrival of the newly approved Covid-19 vaccine. The Guardian

Coronavirus vaccine is only way we will win, Boris Johnson insists The Times

Boris Johnson wants world vaccinated by end of 2022 to 'defeat Covid' The National

I find quotes like Manifest very disparaging, just a quick Google shows how the headlines and the rhetoric lent towards the idea that vaccines were the answer. Many were very reluctant to have the vaccine but did so that life could return back to normality.

None of those headlines state that vaccines are 100% effective, but the more relevant point is that you actually have to read more than the headlines. I know a lot of people don't bother with the actual content of the articles, but it is important.
Anyone who thought that any vaccine, ever, was 100% effective never read the first thing about vaccines.

It seems very clear that vaccination in this case is not for the protection of others and herd immunity but more for the benefit of each individual and in turn reduces the strain on the nhs with less hospitalised or seriously ill.

I wonder when this information filters down will those who are currently anti vaccine decide to have it as they can’t rely on others having it and benefitting from hers immunity as so often happens with other illnesses 🤔

@DaraTheTeapot

It seems very clear that vaccination in this case is not for the protection of others and herd immunity but more for the benefit of each individual and in turn reduces the strain on the nhs with less hospitalised or seriously ill.

I wonder when this information filters down will those who are currently anti vaccine decide to have it as they can’t rely on others having it and benefitting from hers immunity as so often happens with other illnesses 🤔

Sorry I may not have been clear in that I mean it’s clear covid is still circulating and transmitting despite vaccinations (unlike things like measles for example where those vaccinated don’t seem to transmit it) if that makes any sense !

As with everything else,this goverment is always 3 months behind with its decisions.

@ManifestDestinee

None of those headlines state that vaccines are 100% effective, but the more relevant point is that you actually have to read more than the headlines. I know a lot of people don't bother with the actual content of the articles, but it is important. Anyone who thought that any vaccine, ever, was 100% effective never read the first thing about vaccines.

No and I agree, but the government have spent a lot on behavioural science and getting the majority to comply. I don't think that those who put theirs faith in the vaccine solving covid are at fault.

Vaccines are the answer though they just arent 100% effective at stopping it. They are though the best way to getting back to normal.

Vaccines arent the way to getting rid of Covid nothing is.

I think it isnt accepting the vaccines arent the answer that is the issue, it is accepting the Covid isnt going anywhere. There isnt a cure. Its not about pretending COVID has gone away it is about accepting that it isnt going to.

Mu has been around for awhile though hasnt it - since January

but the government have spent a lot on behavioural science and getting the majority to comply. I don't think that those who put theirs faith in the vaccine solving covid are at fault

But the vaccine program IS a huge success. They should be putting faith in the vaccine, its the reason your life is almost normal again. You just can't put all of your faith in it.

@DaraTheTeapot

It seems very clear that vaccination in this case is not for the protection of others and herd immunity but more for the benefit of each individual and in turn reduces the strain on the nhs with less hospitalised or seriously ill.

I wonder when this information filters down will those who are currently anti vaccine decide to have it as they can’t rely on others having it and benefitting from hers immunity as so often happens with other illnesses 🤔

I don’t think many people deciding not to have the vaccine are relying on others to have it to protect them. They’re happy enough to take their risk with the virus.

I don’t think many people deciding not to have the vaccine are relying on others to have it to protect them. They’re happy enough to take their risk with the virus

They are, they just don't always know they are. A lot of the anti-vaxxers are pretty dumb.

I guess it depends on whether they’re actually an anti-vaxxer who believes in conspiracy theories and microchips or if they’ve just decided not to have this vaccine.

I’m in the latter camp and I’m certainly not ‘dumb’ :) I’m not relying on anyone to protect me. I’m happy with the low risk to me from the virus.

I’m not relying on anyone to protect me. I’m happy with the low risk to me from the virus.

But they are protecting you @bumbleymummy, this is quite a non-statement.

You benefit directly and indirectly from reduced circulation of the virus for which vaccination contributes to.

Less chance of getting it yes, but also things like schools remaining open, lower chance of you struggling to access to healthcare for non-COVID stuff, being able to go into work, more options for hospitality.

I guess it depends on whether they’re actually an anti-vaxxer who believes in conspiracy theories and microchips or if they’ve just decided not to have this vaccine

If they've decided not to have the vaccine they are against the vax. They are an anti vaxxer. You don't have to be a full blown tin foil hatter to be so.
You're an anti-vaxxer, you've been railing against vaccinations on MN for about 1o years now.

BTW, thanks for proving my point. You think you're not benefiting from others getting it, but you are. Like I said, they are but they don't they are, like you.