Cases soar in Israel despite high vaccine uptake

[Shanghaisprize]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9951117/Israel-worlds-Covid-hotspot-0-2-population-catching-yesterday.html

Apologies for the source, but this looks a bit worrying - cases are soaring in Israel despite very high vaccine uptake. Serious Illness and deaths are down from the second wave, bit apparently rising sharply. Waning immunity is thought to a reason for this, yet in the UK we seem to be dithering around whether to introduce boosters.

With the already high number of cases, imminent back to school situation in England and lack of any mitigation measures, I'm worried. Anyone else?

Because the covid vaccine was formulated pre delta. It performs a base level of resistance but given the number of people contracting covid delta once vaccinated it’s clearly not that effective.

This is why I question why people are so keen to vaccinate children with what is effectively an out of date vaccine.

Yes I’m concerned about the way this could go during autumn/winter. We’re running at a fairly high level of infections now and SAGE are predicting a flu season on top of COVID. We could be heading into a miserable time if we’re not careful. Immunity is waning for those who received the vaccine early this year. We need to know who’s eligible for the booster.

I could be way off, but of all the countries in the world[circa 208 of them], the very country that has vaccinated the most people, is the very country that has the highest number of covid cases now.

Mind boggling.

Not exactly encouraging is it.

This is very concerning indeed. Lightand I absolutely agree, it is truly mind boggling !

Mind boggling.

Not exactly encouraging is it.

Well they’ll have very low restrictions, so not really.

If hospitalisations remain low, that’s the main thing.

Vaccine resistant strains aren’t going to appear over night. They would be the result of lots of mutations over a significant period of time. We shouldn’t be unduly worried about this as we’ll be able to stay ahead

There are already several variants with vaccine resistant properties. We are already significantly down the road on that one.

There are already several variants with vaccine resistant properties

Read the link I posted, it explains it very well.

It performs a base level of resistance but given the number of people contracting covid delta once vaccinated it’s clearly not that effective

I don't quite get what you mean here? Do you have a link that explains this?

@Jenala

This is the danger of vaccinating into a pandemic. It puts evolutionary pressure on the virus, favouring the spread of stronger variants. The current vaccines are also extremely narrowly focused. We only need a variant to develop where the spike protein is less important in terms of successful infection and boom. Which brings us full circle to the wisdom of vaccinating during a pandemic...

Well! That's quite a mangling of science, isn't it?

Care to show us the research behind each if those points?

Or are you paraphrasing stuff you have little or no understanding of, like many who post confidently about narrow this, spikes of that etc.

Of course, if you are an immunologist, developed a vaccine, work in any medical research, I'll step aside 😁

@TheKeatingFive

Mind boggling.

Not exactly encouraging is it.

Well they’ll have very low restrictions, so not really.

If hospitalisations remain low, that’s the main thing.

Stop stating the obvious Keating, you don't want to get a reputation for common sense!

This is the danger of vaccinating into a pandemic

I’m not sure what this means either, but what alternative was there? Not vaccinate?

Stop stating the obvious Keating, you don't want to get a reputation for common sense!

😂

If hospitalisations remain low, that’s the main thing

I just can't see how they will though if immunity is waning, which it does appear to be. Especially as we are also predicted a significant flu season this year.

I mean - as covid is now endemic, and hospitalisations for covid still significant, where are the plans to increase critical care capacity and staff within the NHS?

@Cornettoninja

Which brings us full circle to the wisdom of vaccinating during a pandemic...

I don’t think it’s a bad idea to vaccinate during a pandemic, I think it’s a bad idea to completely rely on vaccines that are clearly not 100% reducing infections.

How many vaccines are 100% effective?

Asking for a scientist...

@PurpleDaisies

They had a three week dose interval. We had longer which is better.

We don't know this. It's a decision that was made more or less on the fly.

I just can't see how they will though if immunity is waning, which it does appear to be.

That isn’t clear yet. However, if it is waning, boosters will help.

Especially as we are also predicted a significant flu season this year.

To some degree this is a direct result of last years lockdown policies. It was coming and is an important learning that restrictions have health consequences too.

I mean - as covid is now endemic, and hospitalisations for covid still significant, where are the plans to increase critical care capacity and staff within the NHS?

Good question. This should have been in the works since last Feb.

Not too worried purely because covid was mild for me. Not sure if that will stop it killing me down the line but it does feel less scary once you have had it.

We cant change its path. Like I cant dodge cancer or heart disease. Covid is endemic now whatever we do. I cant worry any more.

The WHO are currently investigating the Mu Variant

Yes, I saw this. Worrying.

They had a three week dose interval. We had longer which is better

I thought they weren't sure if longer =better? Plus, there has been a fair bit of variation regarding time between doses - where I work second vaccine can be given any time after 3 weeks, and a lot of the second Pfizer doses were rushed through.

Not too worried purely because covid was mild for me

Blimey.

NHS staff take years to train up. Cutting uni fees for hpcs should be a priority. If you could do a nursing degree or a maths degree and the both cost 27k what would you invest your future in?

@TheKeatingFive

Mind boggling.

Not exactly encouraging is it.

Well they’ll have very low restrictions, so not really.

If hospitalisations remain low, that’s the main thing.

What do you mean by restrictions?

Posted too soon ....

it does feel less scary once you have had it

Not if you get long covid, are looking at the wider issue or have children/ other loved ones who are CEV or can't have the vaccine. We are not all just worrying about ourselves you know?

Of all the stuff posted here you want to query the word restrictions?

Really?

We only need a variant to develop where the spike protein is less important in terms of successful infection and boom.

Please explain this further. Which of the other viral proteins do you think could be involved in infection? Or are you proposing the virus harnessing the host cell proteins to infect? Please bear in mind I have a PhD in biochemistry, have several years experience in DNA vaccine research and currently am a lead scientist working in the pharma industry for a company working on several Covid treatments so don't feel like you have to dumb down your explanation of your proposed alternative infection mechanism.

How Covid infects a cell - love this animation.

NHS staff take years to train up

I know, but there must be some scope to train existing nurses or current graduates in critical care if the funding was there. Where I am there are very few newly qualified vacancies in critical care. Agree that the fees for nursing degrees need to be scrapped, and that we need to work on training and retaining our own nurses, rather than the cost of overseas recruiting and agency staff.