Cases soar in Israel despite high vaccine uptake

[Shanghaisprize]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9951117/Israel-worlds-Covid-hotspot-0-2-population-catching-yesterday.html

Apologies for the source, but this looks a bit worrying - cases are soaring in Israel despite very high vaccine uptake. Serious Illness and deaths are down from the second wave, bit apparently rising sharply. Waning immunity is thought to a reason for this, yet in the UK we seem to be dithering around whether to introduce boosters.

With the already high number of cases, imminent back to school situation in England and lack of any mitigation measures, I'm worried. Anyone else?

@Yummypancake

This is very concerning indeed. Lightand I absolutely agree, it is truly mind boggling !

Me too! But people are quick to dismiss any thinking like this . How many cases of measles do we have ? Barely any ? That’s a vaccine , this is a therapeutic at best .

or that we will all have to adjust our expectations of healthcare availability. That’s the message I’m getting right now. A lot more people will languish on waiting lists until their cases are urgent.

In fairness, I think this was coming anyway.

Covid has clearly made a bad situation much worse, but the U.K. couldn’t expect the level of healthcare it was getting for the price it was paying for much longer.

The U.K. urgently needs a grown up conversation about the scope of the nhs and how it should be funded.

How many cases of measles do we have ? Barely any ?

Pretty sure measles cases have been increasing as vaccination rates have been decreasing. This has been widely reported in recent years.

I'd be pretty alarmed if I or my family member was one of the uk over 80s who received pfizer in Dec/Jan with a three week gap. They are essentially back to square one in terms of protection with no booster in sight.

They are essentially back to square one in terms of protection

That isn’t true at all.

Vaccine protection against severe illness is still very strong.

@GoWalkabout

I'd be pretty alarmed if I or my family member was one of the uk over 80s who received pfizer in Dec/Jan with a three week gap. They are essentially back to square one in terms of protection with no booster in sight.

Not back to square one in the slightest.

This comment is uninformed alarmist nonsense.

@Milkbottlelegs

How many cases of measles do we have ? Barely any ?

Pretty sure measles cases have been increasing as vaccination rates have been decreasing. This has been widely reported in recent years.

There have been clusters in areas with lower MMR vaccine take up. The unproven link with autism which scared parents to not vaccinate. Sounds familiar........

@MercyBooth

I mean - as covid is now endemic, and hospitalisations for covid still significant, where are the plans to increase critical care capacity and staff within the NHS

There likely arent any. We will be expected to accept that the NHS will be a barrier to family life every Christmas/winter.

Sounds like you are blaming the medics for this.

The ones who help all of us as best they can with grace and compassion when we need it most.

Ok fair enough waning immunity is not the same as square one. But it is waning and they are more vulnerable than those who had second vaccine in April www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262423v1

If you crunch a couple of random numbers from the Israeli data, so I took a random date about 5 weeks ago (1,600 cases) and deaths 5 weeks later (11). Think I did the maths right it was 0.6%.

Not to belittle any loss, but that doesn't see reason, just regarding vaccine effectiveness, to be too concerned right now.

As many have pointed out, rise in cases does not necessarily equate to deaths, which is what the vaccine trials indicated I thought, that they considerably reduced the chance of needing hospital. Which is still brilliant remembering the time frame of all this.

Modern medicine cannot make us immortal yet. And along with vaccines medics are progressing all the time with treatments.

Booster jab the vunerable (as is going to happen), perhaps the youngers, vaccinate the rest of the world and accept medical limitations.

Im not blaming the medics at all. They also suffer because of Governments inability or more likely lack of political will to deal with it. But this is why @TheKeatingFive comment about having a grown up conversation about the NHS is something that will never happen?

Because someone will always try to use emotional blackmail as a silencing tactic.

Or do you really believe that the public sacrificing family life every winter is a sustainable workable solution??!!

@HangingChads - you think deaths are very low in the U.K.?

[quote luckylavender]@HangingChads - you think deaths are very low in the U.K.? [/quote]
44th highest in the world deaths per million in the last seven days is one of our better positions.

@GoWalkabout

I'd be pretty alarmed if I or my family member was one of the uk over 80s who received pfizer in Dec/Jan with a three week gap. They are essentially back to square one in terms of protection with no booster in sight.

Yes, I am glad that my grandmother missed out on her second jab by two days before the gap was extended. At least she's 6 months post second jab rather than 8!

I don’t think mercybooth sounds like she’s blaming medics at all,

But a medical service that only works if we shut down every winter isn’t ‘working’ at all. And ultimately lockdowns do more harm than good, even from a health perspective.

Yes, Covid has been a game changer, but if we want decent healthcare, we need to shell out more money for it. That’s the bottom line.

I think we’re doing the best we can.
There is little other option.

Israel is the canary in the Covid coal mine, so to speak.

Yes their spacing between doses was shorter so perhaps that does have an impact on efficacy. But what if it doesn’t, what if the vaccines are at best therapeutics when we’ve hedged our bets on them being our sole way out of this mess?

Of course there will always be those who say they’re not worried or bothered by this and those who live in denial about the gravity of Israel’s news, but once it becomes apparent WE have to take more personal responsibility to control the spread here it’s going to get very interesting.

For all of our sakes I hope the government U turns on the lifting of restrictions sooner rather than (too) later so we can try to manage the impact from autumnal conditions because soaring cases will quickly spiral out of control into a disaster and we’ll have no choice but to lockdown again.

I just wonder what all these posters who tell us we should be worrying think we should actually do?

Hiding indoors and panicking doesn't seem to be an option. We tried that one.

And as someone else said, having lockdowns every winter to "save" a health service is no solution at all. Rightly or wrongly people have had enough of having their lives restricted. They've had enough of being afraid. They've had enough of being called stupid and selfish.

I'd be pretty alarmed if I or my family member was one of the uk over 80s who received pfizer in Dec/Jan with a three week gap.

My dad died of Alzheimer's aged only 73. If my mum makes it to over 80 she'll have done ok. It's been proven over and over that even someone of this age gets Covid they are more likely to survive than not.

I simply don’t understand the point of a vaccine if it’s effectiveness wanes in a matter of months. I don’t get it. The fact that boosters are now being doled out to vulnerable people who were only recently double vaccinated..honestly, what is the point?

Yes, protect the NHS so it’s not overwhelmed etc etc but it seems that ‘protection’ is illusory in practice.

At the moment we are told most of the people in hospital are not vaccinated but it seems that even if almost the entire population had received two jabs the hospitals would eventually still be under some level of stress.

@HesterShaw1

I just wonder what all these posters who tell us we should be worrying think we should actually do?

Hiding indoors and panicking doesn't seem to be an option. We tried that one.

And as someone else said, having lockdowns every winter to "save" a health service is no solution at all. Rightly or wrongly people have had enough of having their lives restricted. They've had enough of being afraid. They've had enough of being called stupid and selfish.

Our first mistake is believing we can live with Covid without any intervention on our part. We can not. Unless we change our behaviours then we are creating perfect opportunities for the virus to spread and adapt, that’s against a backdrop of a successful vaccination campaign I might add.

Perhaps this autumn we will try to live as normal, and no doubt fail. This is a lesson we may need to learn so that collectively as a Nation we see the bigger picture and start taking a less individualistic outlook and realise we all have a responsible part in this.

Arrogance in thinking because we’ve had enough everything will be ok would be a grave mistake.

@Eastie77Returns

I simply don’t understand the point of a vaccine if it’s effectiveness wanes in a matter of months. I don’t get it. The fact that boosters are now being doled out to vulnerable people who were only recently double vaccinated..honestly, what is the point?

Yes, protect the NHS so it’s not overwhelmed etc etc but it seems that ‘protection’ is illusory in practice.

At the moment we are told most of the people in hospital are not vaccinated but it seems that even if almost the entire population had received two jabs the hospitals would eventually still be under some level of stress.

Our vaccines are not cures, you can still get Covid, transmit Covid, be ill from Covid and die from Covid. They just reduce the risk of this happening with varying degrees of success.

Without social distancing and restrictions we can not rely only on the vaccines. It’s not possible.

Vaccines were sold to the healthy ones (least at risk from Covid to start with) as being the ticket to freedom, freedom being no restrictions and the ability to travel. But in practice this may not be true after all if cases start soaring in the autumn and we have to take another approach.

@HesterShaw1

I just wonder what all these posters who tell us we should be worrying think we should actually do?

Hiding indoors and panicking doesn't seem to be an option. We tried that one.

And as someone else said, having lockdowns every winter to "save" a health service is no solution at all. Rightly or wrongly people have had enough of having their lives restricted. They've had enough of being afraid. They've had enough of being called stupid and selfish.

We intend to continue with the basic precautions that many people have already given up.

Hand hygeine. Wearing masks in indoor crowded places. Avoiding close contact in huge crowds.

@HesterShaw1

I just wonder what all these posters who tell us we should be worrying think we should actually do?

Hiding indoors and panicking doesn't seem to be an option. We tried that one.

And as someone else said, having lockdowns every winter to "save" a health service is no solution at all. Rightly or wrongly people have had enough of having their lives restricted. They've had enough of being afraid. They've had enough of being called stupid and selfish.

I'd consider the covid strategies of any countries not having thousands of covid deaths a month, and not sending thousands of people a week to the hospital with covid.

I just wonder what all these posters who tell us we should be worrying think we should actually do?

Wear a mask and wash your hands. Stop pretending that covid has gone away.