Caught Covid due to Uni negligence?

[MaizeBlouse]

I would really like people's POV on my situation please as I'm not sure how or if to proceed with any further action. I'll include the detail so as not to drip feed but the TLDR is that I caught covid off a student but received no covid policy from the Uni I was teaching at.

I am self employed and for the purpose of this thread let's say that I am a self employed embroiderer who has worked from home for 10 years. I am the only person in my 'company' an very rarely attend anyone elses place of work (approx 4 times a year) and mainly how I work is that I email clients who tell me their embroidery needs, I make it and then post it to them. I'm outlining this to basically frame that I am unaware of usual policies or ways of working that an office or university may have as I have never worked in these environments.

A month or so ago an acquaintance of mine, Lana, got in touch to ask if I would lead a week long workshop at the Uni she works at. This would be fo the MA textiles students who haven't had training in my type of embroidery before. I was pleased to be asked as I had been thinking about doing workshops and I set about preparing the course. For added context, in the weeks before the course I recieved no support as to how to schedule or put together th teaching and any emails I sent (about integral info I.e number of students, if we would have the correct equipment an so on) would take about a week to get a response. Fine I thought, this must be what teaching is like an it's on me to problem solve on the week and follow my intuition for the course framework.

I asked Lana what the covid rules an expectations were and was told (over the phone so no record of this) that every student knows to do 2 lateral flow tests a week an that there is hand gel on site. In my potential naivety or ignorance (having never worked in this environment or with anyone but myself) I again thought, fine, that must be how it is.

The week was a success and again I was left to my own devices and only saw another member of staff (Rita) face to face on 2 occasions.

On Tuesday one of the students said they were unwell but not to worry, it wasn't Covid as they had taken a test an the GP had given them antibiotics for a throat infection. Naively I accepted this and, knowing what I know now, I understand that I should have sent the student home then an there until they provided a negative PCR or had no symptoms. However, in my ignorance I didn't know that these are the usual covid policies as I have neve taught before or worked in a "normal" work environment. I trusted that the student would be following whatever procedures they should be and that was that. The nature of embroidery is that I was sometimes in closer contact with the students so that I could get a close look at thier techniques but equally I had the door open a lot of the time an the class was often split in to two groups of 8 or sometimes one to one time. I was getting the train there and back too.

On Saturday I got an email from the poorly student to say that they had taken a PCR an it was positive. I took a lateral flow (which was negative) and a PCR the Same day. My PCR came back th next day as positive.

I have been pretty poorly since then and now I am finally feeling better it is dawning on me not only how naive I was, but also how poorly the uni has gone about this.

I got no Covid policy prior to teaching. I have now sent Lana a text (on Monday) and an email (on Wednesday) asking her if she is aware of the covid out break. I also sent Rita a text yesterday too. No response to any of these messages. So currently I don't know if they know about it, and if they do they haven't informed me.

I take some responsibility for my ignorance to not send the student home. Perhaps if I was used to working in a peopled environment I would have known to do that. I also feel awful that I put my children and my MIL, an therefore, my recently in cancer remission FIL, at risk too, as my MIL looked after my kids for one day during the week when my DP couldn't.

Lana has recently had a hard time personally which she shared with me before the course began so I am sensitive to not add to her plate. But equally I feel like I (and many other people - one student attended a wedding on the final day!) have been put at risk due to thier negligence. Not to mention that I haven't been able to work whilst I've been so ill.

What, if anything, should I do next? I am due to do more teaching there in a month and am in two minds about it. I have another teaching job at another uni in a week an today got a v long and informative covid policy with thier expectations from me as a freelancer and I was like "why didn't I get this before from the other uni! I would have been so much better protected!"

Sorry for the long post. Any thoughts welcomed.

Just to clarify: I got no covid policy (expect being told on the phone that there's hand gel and students should be testing) from the Uni I taught at last week.

I have recived an emailed covid policy from another uni i am due to teach at which was really helpful.

Absolutely a failure from uni to have a clear policy, or not having it made available to you.
Difficult to know where you caught it from but imo I'd say uni should have clear Health and safety Covid policy

That's a helpful perspective @beenthere225. There was noone else on site, or no reception, I was given the key by Rita on day 1 so was essentially on my own with the students! I wasn't even shown where the loos were and half the equipment was faulty.. but that's another qualm of many which I see is potentially colouring my view of the situation.

If there’s anything to be taken from this, I think it’s that you should understand that if you accept a position of responsibility, such as teaching, you accept all the duties that go with it. These include you taking the lead on ensuring the safety and welfare of yourself and your students. If you’re not happy with the university policies on these and are not confident in your own knowledge, understanding and abilities, you don’t accept the position. Ignorance or being naive is not an excuse.

You're getting a hard time, not sure why. OP, some unis are totally incompetent, sadly. The responses from other pp's show just how little those experienced in their ways expect from them. Yes, they should have told you their covid policy. It should have been really simple for someone to email you a copy. You should have known what to do if a student turned up ill. But also, in the midst of a pandemic, you have to look out for yourself. If the conditions you are working in make you feel unsafe, it's up to you to do something about it. Question it, complain, or leave. Don't wait for somebody else to realise you are unsafe. Sorry this happened to you.

Thanks @pickingdaisies. Luckily I've been on MN long enough to expect the vipers and I think I've come away pretty unscathed! Genuinely I have found this thread very eye opening and educational. But you are right that I should have looked out for myself better here.

I can see how stupid I have been and for those of you who work for companies or in teaching or Healthcare and have been sent policy after policy must think I am really thick. But as someone who basically sits alone all day long (for the past 10 years) the pandemic didn't change much for me from a work perspective as I just continued to wfh as I had done for my whole working life.

I agree the original uni seemed a bit lax. Duties and responsibilities work both ways. You should make sure that, as a freelancer, you know what your responsibilities are, so that you don't get caught out.

I assume you were not employed for a week, and instead you were engaged to provide a service for a week, and will send an invoice to get paid? The responsibilities on employees should be greater than those on a subcontractor / freelancer.

I'm self employed. It's my job to assess my personal risk in an employment situation and decide whether to take that risk. If I didn't feel I had enough information I'd ask for more, but at the end of the day it's my responsibility to decide whether the risk is acceptable to me when accepting a job.

I'm really not sure what you are looking for from the university and you can't know exactly where or how you caught covid.

I hope you feel better soon.

Your uni was wrong in not sending a more comprehensive policy BUT the plain fact is that universities are only complying with the government rules now, and that means masks are not compulsory and social distancing only 'desirable' and hand gel an option. Teaching and lecturing isn't going to be as safe as it was last year when all the rules were different. I'm annoyed about it too, but accept that that's how it is going to be, we are all going to get covid and be off a lot and children's education will yet again suffer, but unless the gov't was able to put in place proper safety rules around covid, here we are, it's all up to the individual, young people aren't at high risk, so they are just doing what feels right to them.

You cannot prove who you got covid from, it is likely to be this student, but you aren't able to prove it and if you travel on public transport or were around other students as well, they may also have had it- remember only that student confessed, others may have had it and you simply don't know (as they don't all get tests, or report to Track and Trace).

This is annoying, I will be annoyed when I go back into my workplace and immediately get covid but I don't think there's any way around it. No point in complaining to them, they had a policy, it was a bit shit, we are all going to have this ongoing disruption due to the gov't having no teeth. In other countries in Europe they have testing on site (so not done at home) and vaccine passports, we don't, this is exactly what will happen endlessly this term.

Thanks everyone. I won't be taking this further with the uni but will definitely ask for a covid policy from them for the teaching I'm due to lead in a month or so. If they don't supply one then I will follow the policy from the other Uni and also implement greater care wrt covid and at least do more to protect myself (and therefore my family) to mitigate my risk.

My little workspace at home has definitely made me pretty blinkered!

I think another issue here is that it's still the university holidays - I assume your workshop was some kind of summer course? So most uni staff (and students) are probably unsure exactly what regulations are in place at the moment, because they have changed so many times since the start of the pandemic.

also just out of interest did they give you any other policies, or did you ask them for any? I'm sure you found out how you would be paid and when to turn up etc and had some things documented?

In the scenario described if the student said they had a test and it was negative I'm not sure you would have been right to send them home anyway so it was just unlucky that you did catch it. The policy wouldn't have helped you with that I doubt.

The sort of thing you might want to know about in future without thinking of just the covid policy: what to do if there is a fire or the fire alarm goes off, or some students start fighting, or you take ill and can't continue the lesson, what is the lone working policy if there were no other staff in the building/reception etc, or any other multitude of things that could happen.

Genuine Q: is it not also the unis responsibility to let me know? - I think others have answered that question but on that note, you also assume that the university was even informed by the student that they tested positive - you say they emailed you but do you know that they even bothered telling the university?

I hope you haven't been too ill though and recover soon.

@OrangeTortoise as this was an MA the students said they are taught full time as it is essentially a BA squashed in to 2 years (thiers words not mine!) so their teaching was carrying on as usual and they were discussing other course work they had to prepare for the weeks ahead. But it was an intensive week course with me and was compulsory (I assume?!) As part of thier learning, rather than an opt-in summer school type thing.

@MaizeBlouse

So it's essentially fine that I recieved no written covid policy from the Uni in advance of teaching? Just a verbal thing on the phone that there's hand gel and the students are testing?

Yes verbal is fine, if you wanted it confirmed in writing you could have asked them to follow up with an email

How do you know where you caught it?

Do you usually need to blame someone else when you catch a virus?

Nothing is risk free.

I don’t know why you’re calling yourself stupid and naive and thick and talking about failure. It’s a very infectious disease, it’s not your fault if you catch it. Even if you’d worked in universities for forty years and had a 400-page covid policy document you’d committed to memory, you could still have got it. This is a risk you can’t eliminate through ‘being cleverer’.

You haven’t been stupid and you haven’t done anything wrong. You correctly followed the policies you were given. What do you think you should have done instead - kicked out a student who said they’d tested negative for covid? That could well have been the wrong thing to do according to uni policy.

@beenthere225

A lot of the universities put the emphasis on 'personal responsibility' for the students which does make life difficult for staff. We can 'encourage' students to wear masks and do LFT tests but not enforce it. Due to confidentiality, if a student 'XY' informs staff they have Covid, we have to direct them to track and trace or the official university reporting system to self declare. We cannot inform other staff or students that XY has covid just perhaps that someone in the cohort has it which then becomes very difficult to know who ppl have been in contact with. But you should have been contacted by track and trace 'if' the student has declared it.

It's going to get more difficult with the isolation rules for double jabbed being lifted as well. We of course can't ask if someone is, so there will be different sets of rules within classrooms for different students.... it's going to be an interesting term.

Wow. That's shocking.

I'm in a university in Ireland. Mask wearing is compulsory in all indoor settings (exemptions must go through disability services and provide evidence). We have been told by management that if someone refuses to wear a mask correctly we should terminate the lecture there and then, and report them through the disciplinary process.

LFTs are not compulsory though and we are not allowed ask about vaccine status. That said, take up is really high here in that age cohort as they can't get into pubs or restaurants otherwise .

Op - it sounds like the arrangement was a bit casual. If you were an employee or on a contract, it would be a bit different but really, as a self-employed contractor providing a service to the university, it was up to you to put a covid policy you were comfortable with in place and then run it by them to ensure they were happy for you to do that. Mask wearing is no longer compulsory in England (I assume that's where you are) so I don't know what you were expecting the university to do?

As a 'lecturer' you accepted a role as a senior position - it was you that let the sick student stay in the class so it was really your negligence for yourself and for the other kids in the class. I am guessing they are saying why did that lecturer let the sick student stay.
I would have thought it was common sense not to let the sick student stay but if you felt you didn't know something you should have asked - people don't spoon feed adults information they find out what they need if its been missed.

@imnottoofussed thanks you, you raise some useful Qs wrt fires, fighting etc. I would've had no idea what to do in any of those scenarios and recieved no advice for this.

also just out of interest did they give you any other policies, or did you ask them for any? I'm sure you found out how you would be paid and when to turn up etc and had some things documented?

As mentioned, I did ask for the covid policy over the phone but was told that students were testing and there was hand gel. It would seem, according to PPs, that they don't need to provide me with anything further and equally I was ignorant to not ask for more clarity.
I was told in the first chat I had with Lana what the pay would be (no info on how I'd be paid but I sent an invoice on Sat morning before I got the email from the student). I asked for the hours but was told that this was all up to me to set a schedule, which I did

@unfortunateevents that was basically my reason for contacting Rita and Lana in the first place, to check to see if the student had informed them as well. I know now that this is potentially against the students medical protection rights, but I didn't know this.

OK so I'm getting conflicting advice here.. some PPs are saying its my responsibility that I allowed the student to remain despite her saying srudest felt unwell and others saying I wouldn't have been able to send student home as they tested negative and it wouldn't be within my power....
I suppose this is where a clear policy would have helped me as at least I would be able to follow that.

Educational institutions don't do their own test and trace any more. That's a change from government and not yeh fault of the uni.

Are the policies on the uni website?

Finally a surprising number people believe that if the teacher/TA is vaccinated then that is all the COVID protection needed in a classroom. Hope that you aren't one of the people who attacked teachers who asked for more mitigation's like
vaccinations for teens and masks.

Hi, OP. I'm really sorry you have been unwell and hope you are on the mend. Covid is scary and it must be especially difficult going into different workplaces. As a side note, I'm very excited you picked embroidery as your hypothetical speciality, I'm an embroidery hobbyist ;-)

I work in a uni and I absolutely think your uni should have provided you with a link to all of their written covid guidelines, including specific risk assessments for face to face teaching where it's not possible to socially distance at all times, and what control measures they recommend in these situations. Yes, that should be something you can use common sense about by now, but I also think the employer has a responsibility (legal and moral, and practical--it's no good to them having students and staff out sick needlessly!) to reduce risk and to provide advice on how to reduce risk.

I can also understand that the uni can't necessarily report to you the health status of individual students due to confidentiality. But they should be complying with outbreak measures carried out by the local authority.

That said, the Dept for Education has basically told unis "you can't limit provision based on covid any longer" so we have to suck it up and deal with getting back to FTF teaching. But they should still be looking at risks for scenarios such as yours and providing information.

Other posters are correct that of course you can't know exactly where you picked it up, so perhaps try not to dwell on it too much.

I'd suggest that going forward you request the covid guidelines/risk assessments in advance, and ask specifically about close contact teaching and to speak to their health & safety officers if necessary--they should provide it without asking, but you might have to push. Best wishes.

Us legal bods have been chatting about this for a little while - we think it would be extremely difficult to prove a causal link, but policy/the office manual is the way forward, as with any employment issue.