Caught Covid due to Uni negligence?

[MaizeBlouse]

I would really like people's POV on my situation please as I'm not sure how or if to proceed with any further action. I'll include the detail so as not to drip feed but the TLDR is that I caught covid off a student but received no covid policy from the Uni I was teaching at.

I am self employed and for the purpose of this thread let's say that I am a self employed embroiderer who has worked from home for 10 years. I am the only person in my 'company' an very rarely attend anyone elses place of work (approx 4 times a year) and mainly how I work is that I email clients who tell me their embroidery needs, I make it and then post it to them. I'm outlining this to basically frame that I am unaware of usual policies or ways of working that an office or university may have as I have never worked in these environments.

A month or so ago an acquaintance of mine, Lana, got in touch to ask if I would lead a week long workshop at the Uni she works at. This would be fo the MA textiles students who haven't had training in my type of embroidery before. I was pleased to be asked as I had been thinking about doing workshops and I set about preparing the course. For added context, in the weeks before the course I recieved no support as to how to schedule or put together th teaching and any emails I sent (about integral info I.e number of students, if we would have the correct equipment an so on) would take about a week to get a response. Fine I thought, this must be what teaching is like an it's on me to problem solve on the week and follow my intuition for the course framework.

I asked Lana what the covid rules an expectations were and was told (over the phone so no record of this) that every student knows to do 2 lateral flow tests a week an that there is hand gel on site. In my potential naivety or ignorance (having never worked in this environment or with anyone but myself) I again thought, fine, that must be how it is.

The week was a success and again I was left to my own devices and only saw another member of staff (Rita) face to face on 2 occasions.

On Tuesday one of the students said they were unwell but not to worry, it wasn't Covid as they had taken a test an the GP had given them antibiotics for a throat infection. Naively I accepted this and, knowing what I know now, I understand that I should have sent the student home then an there until they provided a negative PCR or had no symptoms. However, in my ignorance I didn't know that these are the usual covid policies as I have neve taught before or worked in a "normal" work environment. I trusted that the student would be following whatever procedures they should be and that was that. The nature of embroidery is that I was sometimes in closer contact with the students so that I could get a close look at thier techniques but equally I had the door open a lot of the time an the class was often split in to two groups of 8 or sometimes one to one time. I was getting the train there and back too.

On Saturday I got an email from the poorly student to say that they had taken a PCR an it was positive. I took a lateral flow (which was negative) and a PCR the Same day. My PCR came back th next day as positive.

I have been pretty poorly since then and now I am finally feeling better it is dawning on me not only how naive I was, but also how poorly the uni has gone about this.

I got no Covid policy prior to teaching. I have now sent Lana a text (on Monday) and an email (on Wednesday) asking her if she is aware of the covid out break. I also sent Rita a text yesterday too. No response to any of these messages. So currently I don't know if they know about it, and if they do they haven't informed me.

I take some responsibility for my ignorance to not send the student home. Perhaps if I was used to working in a peopled environment I would have known to do that. I also feel awful that I put my children and my MIL, an therefore, my recently in cancer remission FIL, at risk too, as my MIL looked after my kids for one day during the week when my DP couldn't.

Lana has recently had a hard time personally which she shared with me before the course began so I am sensitive to not add to her plate. But equally I feel like I (and many other people - one student attended a wedding on the final day!) have been put at risk due to thier negligence. Not to mention that I haven't been able to work whilst I've been so ill.

What, if anything, should I do next? I am due to do more teaching there in a month and am in two minds about it. I have another teaching job at another uni in a week an today got a v long and informative covid policy with thier expectations from me as a freelancer and I was like "why didn't I get this before from the other uni! I would have been so much better protected!"

Sorry for the long post. Any thoughts welcomed.

You say you're not used to this sort of environment so my advice would be to listen to people (me and I presume others on this thread) who are used to this sort of environment.

If you work with other people there is a chance you could catch something from them - colds, flu, whatever. While it is the duty of the university to follow whatever rules there are around health and safety etc it is not their duty to ensure you never get sick. Unfortunately as a human being sick is something you just have to deal with.

The student should have gone home given their symptoms, that's unfortunate, but they thought they were ok and they weren't out to hurt you. The university isn't responsible for that student's behaviour and, really, as the lecturer, if anyone has any responsibility it's you. The fact that you didn't send the student home though isn't a massive failing just a slightly bad decision based on a lack of insight. In that sense maybe the uni could have done more to prepare you but really, again, it's not a massive failing.

You could have caught covid anywhere. You caught it at work. Hard luck. If you pursue this with the uni, nothing will happen.

yes they did. Genuine Q: is it not also the unis responsibility to let me know?

I don't think so and maybe confidentially stopped them doing so?

So it's essentially fine that I recieved no written covid policy from the Uni in advance of teaching? Just a verbal thing on the phone that there's hand gel and the students are testing?

I also struggle to see what the university have done wrong.

@MaizeBlouse

So it's essentially fine that I recieved no written covid policy from the Uni in advance of teaching? Just a verbal thing on the phone that there's hand gel and the students are testing?

What would you have liked that didn't happen?

Welcome to teaching. At least you only had groups of 8 rather than 30+ and your students could be vaccinated so you lasted a week.

A lot of the universities put the emphasis on 'personal responsibility' for the students which does make life difficult for staff. We can 'encourage' students to wear masks and do LFT tests but not enforce it. Due to confidentiality, if a student 'XY' informs staff they have Covid, we have to direct them to track and trace or the official university reporting system to self declare. We cannot inform other staff or students that XY has covid just perhaps that someone in the cohort has it which then becomes very difficult to know who ppl have been in contact with. But you should have been contacted by track and trace 'if' the student has declared it.

It's going to get more difficult with the isolation rules for double jabbed being lifted as well. We of course can't ask if someone is, so there will be different sets of rules within classrooms for different students.... it's going to be an interesting term.

@MaizeBlouse

So it's essentially fine that I recieved no written covid policy from the Uni in advance of teaching? Just a verbal thing on the phone that there's hand gel and the students are testing?

Its probably on their website.

You can debate what the university should have done, but you can’t change the past. What you need to focus on is the future. You are teaching a technique that doesn’t allow for social distancing. There needs to be a class policy or wearing masks. You should check with your university contacts what is needed to put that in place and inform the students.

I think you must have realised that universities are quite high risk. It's been on the news that younger people are badly affected by the Delta and I think you should have worn a mask. I don't know what you can do about it really. I also work with young people and I try my best to stay safe, but it's just hard. I. hope you aren't too badly affected.

I'm not in the UK but if you were wearing a mask on the train, why didn't you wear a mask in the classroom?

@MaizeBlouse

So it's essentially fine that I recieved no written covid policy from the Uni in advance of teaching? Just a verbal thing on the phone that there's hand gel and the students are testing?

yes - unless you particularly asked them for their covid policy - and then what would you have done with the information? That particular student may still have had a negative lft just before the class and then later tested positive.

On the plus side you are likely better protected now and so can accept other assignments if you want to with more confidence. Or decline them if you prefer.

@MaizeBlouse

So it's essentially fine that I recieved no written covid policy from the Uni in advance of teaching? Just a verbal thing on the phone that there's hand gel and the students are testing?

Why did you agree to work without a written policy?

What do you think this policy would have said?

asking her if she is aware of the covid out break

I'm not sure one case can be classed as an outbreak tbh.

How do you know the student didnt do their LFTs and get negatives, but decided to do a PCR just in case and come up positive. LFTs are pointless.

No to mention, the million other cases you could have caught it.

You were naive to think that you wouldnt get covid at some stage.

Thanks @TheDailyCarbunkle I am definitely taking this all on board and your summary is really helpful to me.

@MrsPelligrinoPetrichor the recent policy I received for the new uni stated something like "any student with any symptoms, even if they're not covid symptoms, should remain at home." With this info I would have probably sent her home the day she said she was ill

Is this really a serious post. You could have caught it anywhere and from anyone.

You are teaching a technique that doesn’t allow for social distancing. There needs to be a class policy or wearing masks.
The uni can similarly argue that it is the guest lecturer, an expert in her field and has much more knowledge about what is going on in the classroom, who should be responsible for specifying and implementing that class policy.

This is really helpful to know where I have failed and to open my eyes about the world of teaching. I feel so much better armoured to protect myself in the future and will take many many more steps in order to do everything I can to not put myself and others at risk.

I can see now that my own ignorance was to blame and that the Uni has less responsibility than i assumed.

For the record I never thought I couldn't catch Covid!

@MaizeBlouse

Thanks *@TheDailyCarbunkle* I am definitely taking this all on board and your summary is really helpful to me.

@MrsPelligrinoPetrichor the recent policy I received for the new uni stated something like "any student with any symptoms, even if they're not covid symptoms, should remain at home." With this info I would have probably sent her home the day she said she was ill

I think I'd have gone to reception and said I wasn't comfortable teaching ill students regardless of policy.

We have been informed by the school that close contacts will be informed by T&T as too much of schools time and resources were being taken up doing this. Also close contacts do not have to isolate while awaiting the results of a PCR. Essentially OP we are now under the government regime of living with Covid and 'personal responsibility' so not a lot the uni could have done to prevent this situation. The student had a throat infection and saw a GP so could have objected if you insisted on a PCR. Also it's possible she was not even infectious on the Tuesday if she only went on to test positive on the Saturday.

You've failed because you didn't sonically distance or wear a mask and you caught Covid?!

OK then.

Sonically 🤣

*socially

@MaizeBlouse

Thanks *@TheDailyCarbunkle* I am definitely taking this all on board and your summary is really helpful to me.

@MrsPelligrinoPetrichor the recent policy I received for the new uni stated something like "any student with any symptoms, even if they're not covid symptoms, should remain at home." With this info I would have probably sent her home the day she said she was ill

Regardless of receiving the Covid policy, you should have been given someone you could contact on the day if you have any queries re Covid. Even after running a course this last year, every case is a nightmare because the rules have changed so much and uni policies are so strict (I can't tell a student to leave the premises for example). Whoever hired you should have made sure you knew who to contact in case this came up, I wouldn't put that stress on a freelancer personally.

Is this really a serious post. You could have caught it anywhere and from anyone.
No I just posted it for a massive laugh.

Ofc I could have got it from anywhere. But considering I spent 8hrs a day in a classroom with someone who later tested positive, and the only other space I was in was on the train for 7 mins, I'm going to assume I got it from her.

@MaizeBlouse

This is really helpful to know where I have failed and to open my eyes about the world of teaching. I feel so much better armoured to protect myself in the future and will take many many more steps in order to do everything I can to not put myself and others at risk.

I can see now that my own ignorance was to blame and that the Uni has less responsibility than i assumed.

For the record I never thought I couldn't catch Covid!

we're all going to catch covid probably multiple times - but if we are vaxed we'll very likely be ok. and you do seem to be ok so the vaccines have worked for you

It's not your ignorance or your failure - it's just life