Ivermectin bonkersness

[Thebookswereherfriends]

I’ve just been reading about people all over the world who are buying a horse dewormer medicine to “cure” Covid-19. It makes people crap themselves, go blind and causes your intestinal lining to shed! How on earth does someone think taking a medication for animals is a good idea, but having a vaccine which is designed and tested for humans by actual doctors and scientists is crazy?!

@frumpety

Can anyone explain how a drug used to treat parasitic infections in humans works against covid ? Are people saying it kills the virus or reduces the symptoms ?

It's mechanism of action would be as an anti-viral - so inhibiting viral replication.

Thus it would only be useful in very early stages of infection, not for bringing someone back from the brink in hospital (as people keep claiming has happened) nor for long COVID. Oxford are trialling it as a treatment for early symptoms on this basis.

The theoretical evidence is not strong, hence why it was not initially prioritised as a candidate over other things like HCQ and the corticosteroids.

I recommend listening to Dr Peter McCullough on treatments to keep people out of hospital. He's now getting smeared as an anti-vaxxer, etc (which he's not). However, worth keeping in mind that he's one of the most published medics in the world.

@IvorBigarse

I recommend listening to Dr Peter McCullough on treatments to keep people out of hospital. He's now getting smeared as an anti-vaxxer, etc (which he's not). However, worth keeping in mind that he's one of the most published medics in the world.

McCullough has been discussed to death on here - he is yet another quack promoting misinformation

He is still pushing HCQ on patients which is even worse than trying ivermectin. It has been categorically proven to not be effective.

He has also made the classic COVID misinformation claims that no one under >50 needs to be vaccinated (because they can treated with HCQ) and that asymptomatic transmission is impossible. He claims are not based on good quality evidence and are harmful.

Why on earth people sift through 100s of experts until they find the 1 quack who agrees with them I'll never know.

However, worth keeping in mind that he's one of the most published medics in the world.

What's his H index then?

He's a cardiologist so presumably doesn't haven't a strong body of work in anything actually relevant to coronavirus.

@IvorBigarse

I recommend listening to Dr Peter McCullough on treatments to keep people out of hospital. He's now getting smeared as an anti-vaxxer, etc (which he's not). However, worth keeping in mind that he's one of the most published medics in the world.

Some more claims from McCullough from an interview he did last year - not an anti-vaxxer you say?

“In May we have over 4,000 vaccine-related deaths and over 10,000 hospitalizations. […] this is far and away the most lethal toxic biologic agent ever injected into a human body in American history.”

“Two months for COVID, […] two months of observational data. This idea that we could vaccinate people that were not even tested in the trials. That has never been done before. We have never just thrown a vaccine at somebody without having any data.”

“This is what globalists have been waiting for, they’ve been waiting for a way of marking people, that you get in a vaccine, you’re marked in a database and this can be used for trade, for commerce, for behavior modification, all different purposes”

@speckledostrichegg you say "McCullough has been discussed to death on here - he is yet another quack promoting misinformation."

Hmm; a quack who was asked to testify before the Texas State Senate Committee on Health & Human Services..? Editor of several medical journals, author of hundreds of publications in peer-reviewed journals, inc the most cited on Covid..?

Dispute what he says if you like; but don't call him a quack. Ad hominem arguments really scrape the bottom of the barrel.

And I agree with everything that severelysound said.

[quote HBGKC]@speckledostrichegg you say "McCullough has been discussed to death on here - he is yet another quack promoting misinformation."

Hmm; a quack who was asked to testify before the Texas State Senate Committee on Health & Human Services..? Editor of several medical journals, author of hundreds of publications in peer-reviewed journals, inc the most cited on Covid..?

Dispute what he says if you like; but don't call him a quack. Ad hominem arguments really scrape the bottom of the barrel. [/quote]
Have you read the information above? He is peddling complete pseudoscience with no evidence base.

An "ad hominen" attack would be if I was saying his views or coronavirus were wrong and he's a quack because I don't like his hair, or he cheated on his wife. I am saying this because the claims he are making are false.

Yes, he's previously had a good career like many of the people who are now peddling reams of misinformation like Mike Yeadon, Clare Craig et al.

Editor of several medical journals, author of hundreds of publications in peer-reviewed journals, inc the most cited on Covid..?

As I have said, hundreds of publications in an area not relevant to coronavirus is the key thing here.

Which paper are you referring to? I believe the most cited is actually the now retracted infamous paper that falsely claimed vaccines were killing 3x more people than they saved. High citations =/= good quality science. A clickbait title is always going to get reads.

@severelysound

Well said

He is such a piece of work - more recent anti-vax misinformation from McCullough. How can you be promoting him as an unbiased source of information?

Thus, we have a key piece to the puzzle explaining why the Delta outbreak is so formidable — fully vaccinated are participating as COVID-19 patients and acting as powerful Typhoid Mary-style super-spreaders of the infection.

Vaccinated individuals are blasting out concentrated viral explosions into their communities and fueling new COVID surges. Vaccinated healthcare workers are almost certainly infecting their coworkers and patients, causing horrendous collateral damage.

Continued vaccination will only make this problem worse, particularly among frontline doctors and nurses workers who are caring for vulnerable patients.

Health systems should consider the ramifications of their current vaccinated healthcare workers as potential threats to high risk patients and coworkers.

dailyexpose.co.uk/2021/08/24/oxford-university-study-finds-fully-vaccinated-healthcare-workers-carry-251-times-viral-load-compared-to-the-unvaccinated/

" I am saying this because the claims he are making are false."

@speckledostrichegg can you falsify the claims of his that you dispute, please? Prove that he's wrong?

Dr. McCullough has actually treated, face to face, hundreds if not thousands of patients with Covid over the last 18 months; mostly people who were already in his practice, whose medical history he knows. He was dutifully sending them off to get vaccinated, before he started seeing worrying after-effects in significant numbers. I'm pretty sure his hands-on knowledge and experience of both covid and the vaccines are considerably greater than yours, or mine, or Dr. Fauci's.

Consider this: why would such an eminent, successful, respected physician risk his entire career to stick his head above the parapet and make such statements? What does he possibly stand to gain? You're demonstrating very nicely exactly what he stands to lose. So why is he doing it?

And he's not alone; there are many other experienced doctors who are working on the front line, trying to help actual patients, who are also flagging up worrying data - but no-one wants to listen. These doctors are not 'anti-vaxxers'; they are opposed to giving their patients things which may end up doing more harm than good.

@HBGKC

" I am saying this because the claims he are making are false."

@speckledostrichegg can you falsify the claims of his that you dispute, please? Prove that he's wrong?

Dr. McCullough has actually treated, face to face, hundreds if not thousands of patients with Covid over the last 18 months; mostly people who were already in his practice, whose medical history he knows. He was dutifully sending them off to get vaccinated, before he started seeing worrying after-effects in significant numbers. I'm pretty sure his hands-on knowledge and experience of both covid and the vaccines are considerably greater than yours, or mine, or Dr. Fauci's.

Consider this: why would such an eminent, successful, respected physician risk his entire career to stick his head above the parapet and make such statements? What does he possibly stand to gain? You're demonstrating very nicely exactly what he stands to lose. So why is he doing it?

And he's not alone; there are many other experienced doctors who are working on the front line, trying to help actual patients, who are also flagging up worrying data - but no-one wants to listen. These doctors are not 'anti-vaxxers'; they are opposed to giving their patients things which may end up doing more harm than good.

I'm not actually sure - for the same reasons the members of HART and Yeadon are. Some believe it, some are profiting.

Are you seriously asking me to explain why the claims he's made are wrong?

For a start, the ones about vaccinated people have 251X the viral load in their nostrils compared to unvaccinated, and that they are blasting it out like "typhoid mary", and that HCPs must not be vaccinated. It's complete bullshit. The study he is deliberately misinterpreting was comparing delta breakthrough infections to those from last year. All evidence demonstrated vaccines reduce transmission, no increase it.

HCQ has been proven in trials to not be effective and yet he still promotes it - you can see all the findings online from solidarity.

Do i need to go on?

“In May we have over 4,000 vaccine-related deaths and over 10,000 hospitalizations. […] this is far and away the most lethal toxic biologic agent ever injected into a human body in American history.”

False - this was VAERS data. Clearly if it was the most lethal toxic agent ever injected into billions of people we'd be seeing 100,000s of deaths.

“Two months for COVID, […] two months of observational data. This idea that we could vaccinate people that were not even tested in the trials. That has never been done before. We have never just thrown a vaccine at somebody without having any data.”

False - all necessary data was collected before rolling out vaccines to the gen pop.

“This is what globalists have been waiting for, they’ve been waiting for a way of marking people, that you get in a vaccine, you’re marked in a database and this can be used for trade, for commerce, for behavior modification, all different purposes”

I'm not even going to dignify this one

It's a human drug as well as an animal drug. I believe you can buy it OTC in America for nits. I've certainly given it to dd as a child for nits....at a small child dose rather than a horse dose though. I also give it to the chickens if they get lice.

I dont think it works for covid though.

There is one ongoing trial - there are no results yet.

Ivermectin has been shown to be an effective antiviral in vitro at concentrations too high to be safe for humans.

The rejection of all evidence short of a large-scale, Randomized, Controlled, Trial is not rigorous. It is anti-rigorous. It’s amazing that otherwise intelligent adults have allowed themselves to accept and broadcast it as if it was a sophisticated, pro-science position.

We find ourselves in a position where doctors on the frontline reporting real life efficacy are just instantly dismissed. It’s madness

@hamstersarse

The rejection of all evidence short of a large-scale, Randomized, Controlled, Trial is not rigorous. It is anti-rigorous. It’s amazing that otherwise intelligent adults have allowed themselves to accept and broadcast it as if it was a sophisticated, pro-science position.

We find ourselves in a position where doctors on the frontline reporting real life efficacy are just instantly dismissed. It’s madness

RCTs are the gold standard for good reason. If there aren't RCTs, we rely on other evidence.

However, now that data from well powered, well conducted trials is showing no evidence for efficacy, why keeping pushing ivermectin as a treatment?

Are we talking about Dr Peter McCullough?

Cuz he's dodgy.

www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/93936

www.latimes.com/business/story/2021-08-16/doctors-coronavirus-misinformation-license

fullfact.org/health/conservative-woman-article-falsely-claims-vaccines-dont-work/

He's been debunked and moves are being made to sue him for a variety of reasons, including falsely claiming titles and positions he no longer holds.

Vaccinated individuals are blasting out concentrated viral explosions into their communities and fueling new COVID surges. Vaccinated healthcare workers are almost certainly infecting their coworkers and patients, causing horrendous collateral damage.

Oh, that's interesting. Because Claire Craig in the leaked HART chat logs says "we need to seed the thought that vaccines cause covid"

@Gingernaut

Are we talking about Dr Peter McCullough?

Cuz he's dodgy.

www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/93936

www.latimes.com/business/story/2021-08-16/doctors-coronavirus-misinformation-license

fullfact.org/health/conservative-woman-article-falsely-claims-vaccines-dont-work/

He's been debunked and moves are being made to sue him for a variety of reasons, including falsely claiming titles and positions he no longer holds.

Yup, dodgy AF.

Clearly has some loyal fans on here though!

@hamstersarse

The rejection of all evidence short of a large-scale, Randomized, Controlled, Trial is not rigorous. It is anti-rigorous. It’s amazing that otherwise intelligent adults have allowed themselves to accept and broadcast it as if it was a sophisticated, pro-science position.

We find ourselves in a position where doctors on the frontline reporting real life efficacy are just instantly dismissed. It’s madness

"Frontline reporting" is simply anecdotes.

RCTs are needed as they are structured, controlled and give verifiable data.

@noblegiraffe

Vaccinated individuals are blasting out concentrated viral explosions into their communities and fueling new COVID surges. Vaccinated healthcare workers are almost certainly infecting their coworkers and patients, causing horrendous collateral damage.

Oh, that's interesting. Because Claire Craig in the leaked HART chat logs says "we need to seed the thought that vaccines cause covid"

I know.

The leaked HART chats are actually bonkers (and depressing)

Even more depressing when you see the impact that they've had on schools policy, speckled. No one should be taking any of that lot seriously.