Ivermectin bonkersness

[Thebookswereherfriends]

I’ve just been reading about people all over the world who are buying a horse dewormer medicine to “cure” Covid-19. It makes people crap themselves, go blind and causes your intestinal lining to shed! How on earth does someone think taking a medication for animals is a good idea, but having a vaccine which is designed and tested for humans by actual doctors and scientists is crazy?!

You don't think anyone is mad enough to treat their children with horse wormer do you ?

@frumpety, there's no telling what these crackpots will do.

www.vice.com/en/article/bvzkjd/facebooks-ivermectin-groups-are-unhinged-and-out-of-control

@frumpety

You don't think anyone is mad enough to treat their children with horse wormer do you ?

You would hope not! No reports of paediatric ivermectin toxicity or children hospitalised due to it.

Fortunately FLCCC generally don't recommend it either, which is something

...we recommend that children only use the vitamins in the protocol. If your child becomes very ill with Covid-19 you should immediately consult your child’s pediatrician and discuss the use of Ivermectin and the protocols with them.

covid19criticalcare.com/ivermectin-in-covid-19/faq-on-ivermectin/

Yes, I agree. But I think "the public" are not idiots, and can make up their own minds.

Or my relative who genuinely believes my kids will be orphans in 2 years as dh and I are vaccinated and I will never be a grandmother if my kids choose to be vaccinated. I could write a book on the shit I have heard.

Yes, I agree. But I think "the public" are not idiots, and can make up their own minds

"The public" voted for Brexit, repeated Conservative governments and Boris

"The public" are the reason why shop workers are scared to go to work, why the medical and emergency services are burning out and why everything around us is turning to shit.

"The public" are dumbfoundingly fuckwitted.

That people are arguing that the public are sensible and can deal with large amounts of dense, confusing and sometimes conflicting scientific data on a thread started because humans are eating horse dewormer is quite something.

I would imagine that all the big pharmaceutical companies will have people working on 'treatment' medications for covid. They were never going to just develop vaccines and stop there.

The only effective Treatments for Long Covid are based on symptom management.

Won't stop lots of quackery when people try to promote random drugs to prevent or hasten recovery from LC.

@lljkk

The only effective Treatments for Long Covid are based on symptom management.

Won't stop lots of quackery when people try to promote random drugs to prevent or hasten recovery from LC.

Yup.

Ivermectin has become this touted miracle cure, despite the obvious fact that anti-virals (if it did work as an anti-viral, which is sadly looking like it does not), obviously wouldn't be effective for post-viral syndromes like long COVID. The clue is in the name!

Anyone claiming it does, or that there are trials looking into it because it's so promising, is being deeply irresponsible.

I know all you ‘anti-treatmenters’ will quickly discredit the news article because it mentions the media and pharma funded government condemned scientist Dr McCullough, but source aside, how exactly do you explain the figures and the difference between Delhi and Israel?

Delhi - much more densely populated, poorer populations and healthcare, generations of families sharing the same home…

Just to point out once again that my questioning of what information we are being given does not make me anti vax and I support vaccination in elderly and vulnerable people. However, I do think that if there is a treatment that we should be using that instead of endless vaccines.

www.thedesertreview.com/news/national/ivermectin-obliterates-97-percent-of-delhi-cases/article_6a3be6b2-c31f-11eb-836d-2722d2325a08.html

@Lostinacloud that’s the point though isn’t it? Ivermectin can’t replicate claims that have been attributed to it. There’s no requirement to fill the gap with an alternative explanation if the evidence is it doesn’t work. Demands for alternative explanations if that’s not the answer isn’t how science works.

Development and improvements for treatments of covid haven’t stopped but treatment and vaccination complement each other. When it comes to health prevention is always better than cure so if a vaccination can prevent severe illness or death that’s always going to be the ideal path to pursue.

India has problems with mass overcrowding, poverty, vaccine rollout, medical treatment of cases and accurate testing.

IMHO, the number of deaths, positive and hospital cases are under reported to a massive degree.

Israel started their vaccination programmes early enough for them to start seeing immunity waning.

Add to this, visitors from outside the country and the powerful tidal wave of the Delta Variant and we're seeing a depressing number of breakthrough cases.

www.science.org/news/2021/08/grim-warning-israel-vaccination-blunts-does-not-defeat-delta

The real test would be to see the number of hospitalisations.

I appreciate what you’ve both said but the correlation is hard to deny. Delhi started issuing ivermectin as early treatment on April 20th 2021. Immediately a huge drop and continued flat line of cases is evident.

Eh?
Just to be clear that post did in no way suggest we should all be taking horse wormers, whatever flavour

Trusted news sources are putting India's death toll at more than 10 times the official figure

www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/07/20/1018438334/indias-pandemic-death-toll-estimated-at-about-4-million-10-times-the-official-co

www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-57888460

Many regional officials are party cronies, who are as easily swayed by bogus studies, desperation and corruption as ordinary people.

www.indiatoday.in/india/story/corruption-second-covid-pandemic-black-marketing-medicines-tiii-1799395-2021-05-06

globalanticorruptionblog.com/2021/05/14/corruption-at-the-heart-of-indias-coronavirus-crisis-prime-minister-modi-must-answer-for-the-pm-cares-fund/

www.nationalheraldindia.com/india/profiteering-in-covid-19-test-kits-purchase-modi-govt-must-make-all-transactions-public-demands-congress

Even the very poorest people have to bribe medical personnel to get basic free treatment.

healthfeedback.org/claimreview/no-data-available-to-suggest-a-link-between-indias-reduction-of-covid-19-cases-and-the-use-of-ivermectin-jim-hoft-gateway-pundit/

India's case testing is haphazard at best and strictly limited

Authorities are only counting deaths in hospitals

www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/5/3/is-india-counting-every-covid-case-what-about-deaths

Many rural cases aren't being counted at all and neither are deaths

www.newsweek.com/heartbreaking-video-shows-sons-forced-transport-moms-body-motorbike-india-1587129

Because Israel is on top of testing and vaccination in and organised effort not seen anywhere else, their figures are considered the most reliable.

@Lostinacloud correlation without robust evidence isn’t hard to deny. The facts are black and white until proved otherwise. Otherwise we’re back in the dark ages and may as well attribute India’s stats to the position of Mars in relation to Jupiter.

I’m not completely against looking into Ivermectin, it would be great if it was confirmed as an early treatment, but the following it’s gained has done so much harm to its public perception it’s going to be a tough sell if the data backs up the claim. It feeds into the politicisation of covid and has forced people to take a firm stance without the knowledge to back it up.

As far as I’m aware there are trials including it currently but there has been a lot of damage done so far because of peoples blinkered pursuit in the meantime both professional and publicly, which in turn has delayed any actual benefit that could have been derived from it.

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/science/2021/jul/16/huge-study-supporting-ivermectin-as-covid-treatment-withdrawn-over-ethical-concerns

It's crazy that the argument is still going ahead. The existing data is no good (either methodologically, or turned out to be fraudulent) when attempting to discern a causal effect of ivermectin.

Observational data is really hard to use to prove causation, as @Cornettoninja says, it might as well be the position of planets causing the effect, you have no idea.

There are proper, well designed trials currently going ahead to see if it has a role in early treatment of COVID.

@Lostinacloud

I appreciate what you’ve both said but the correlation is hard to deny. Delhi started issuing ivermectin as early treatment on April 20th 2021. Immediately a huge drop and continued flat line of cases is evident.

Yes there's certainly correlation.

But is the classic issue of observational epidemiology. A famous example was from data gathered from NY showing as ice cream sales go up so rates of homicides. There's a very very strong positive correlation between the two.

By the logic people apply to the ivermectin scenario, we must ban ice cream immediately, or apply strict measures in place in how it can be sold to stop people killing each other.

I know all you ‘anti-treatmenters’

I don't think anyone on here is against treatments, haven't heard anyone poo poo the use of dexamethasone or CPAP ?

@frumpety

I know all you ‘anti-treatmenters’

I don't think anyone on here is against treatments, haven't heard anyone poo poo the use of dexamethasone or CPAP ?

Yes, I can't assume anyone in the world, unless they're rooting for COVID, is "anti-treatment"

I'm anti treatment that don't work, given that it's harmful to promote things that aren't going to make a difference to COVID outcomes (diverts resources, distracts attention from other viable treatments, can cause side effects and toxicity, increases risk by discouraging people to not be vaccination when there isn't a safe alternative)

grr

increases risk by discouraging people to not be vaccinated when there isn't a safe alternative)

I used the term anti-treatmenters tongue in cheek because I was highlighting the fact any questioning of the main narrative is met with an accusation of anti-vax. My term is just as ridiculous but attempts to demonstrate that.