Mandatory vaccine

[Walkingalone21]

What are peoples thoughts on the mandatory vaccine for all care home workers? If they choose not to have the vaccine they will loose their jobs on the 11th November 2021.
By now all of the residents will have been double jabbed and the majority of the care staff also. I think this is madness in an already under staffed industry especially as there is still no evidence that the vaccine stops or reduces the transmission. In a bid to protect the residents they will be putting them at risk by the severe shortage of staff.
I have so many questions around this.
Natural antibodies have the same if not better protection for the individual. Should that be taken into account too?
It seems that staff are being bullied and threatened into getting vaccinated by being told they will loose their jobs. Where is their choice in a sector that’s core values are care, empowerment and human rights?
Last years hero’s, this years unemployed it’s seems.

I would like to think there is a choice and the people who choose not to be vaccinated aren’t discriminated against.

I think it's completely wrong unless the people most at risk it is supposed to protect, are forced to have it themselves.

The alternative to the dilemmas of mandatory vaccination of care home staff, vaccination of healthy 12-15 year olds and the wider booster programme is COVID antibody testing.
This would be as straightforward as the LFT tests taken in the 10,000s every day.
I’m not sure why this hasn’t been rolled out to inform and support the pandemic response.

Unless those in power haven’t arranged suitable contracts to benefit themselves and their associates yet?

But those without a degree of immunity afforded either naturally or by vaccination have no place working with the most vulnerable in our society.

All the vaccine vigilantes complaining unvaxxed and underpaid care home workers are “selfish”, can enjoy looking after their own elderly relatives and see how they like it!

@Seriously79 this vaccine comes with potential side-effects, so it is perfectly understandable many care home workers choose to prioritise their health.
Ultimately it is their personal choice.
If people cannot respect their rights they must accept they will have to wipe the bottoms of their old folk, and not palm off this disagreeable work anymore.

@FreshFreesias

All the vaccine vigilantes complaining unvaxxed and underpaid care home workers are “selfish”, can enjoy looking after their own elderly relatives and see how they like it!

But this isn't really the point?

It's a job, and one of the few benefits of it being underpaid and low skilled is that care workers aren't trapped in it if they don't want to be vaccinated.

@cptartapp

I think it's completely wrong unless the people most at risk it is supposed to protect, are forced to have it themselves.

Why?

I mean yes pretty much all of them will have as they're so high risk, but the problem is vaccine efficacy is low in this group.

Personally l think it's disgusting, no one should be forced to take a vaccine just to keep their job. I wrote to my mp, she couldn't care less, l never thought l'd live to see such days, we no longer live in a free country. Our rights are being taken away from us and most people are just too blind to see what's going on.

No they should not be forced. Ever.

Natural infection doesn’t necessarily produce the same antibody response as vaccination, that is now clear. What makes you think it does?

I am all for mandatory vaccine for all healthcare workers.

@Vanda189

The alternative to the dilemmas of mandatory vaccination of care home staff, vaccination of healthy 12-15 year olds and the wider booster programme is COVID antibody testing. This would be as straightforward as the LFT tests taken in the 10,000s every day. I’m not sure why this hasn’t been rolled out to inform and support the pandemic response.

Unless those in power haven’t arranged suitable contracts to benefit themselves and their associates yet?

This! ^^^ I think @Vanda189 has hit the nail on the head.

"Natural infection doesn’t necessarily produce the same antibody response as vaccination, that is now clear. What makes you think it does?

I am all for mandatory vaccine for all healthcare workers."

Why?

@Peteycat Because if you’re working with vulnerable people then you should be willing to protect them from harm. It’s not “mandatory” anyway, if you don’t want the vaccine then you can get another job. These are unprecedented times and it calls for strenuous measures.

The vaccination is in no way mandatory. Every decision anytime ever made has/had repercussions.

In this case,the decision is "do you have the vaccine or not?". If the answer is no, entirely your choice . Repercussion is. You loose your job. Your choice. But,as ever, with everything, decisions have repercussions.

This is not about care homes. It's about medical tyranny.

You either believe the government should have full medical control over your body or you don't. It's really that simple.

The government are acting illegally here. There are several laws that protect the public from forced vaccinations. This law does not cancel out those existing laws.

Care home managers have been put in an impossible situation. They are forced to act illegally and break employment law or they will be fined. Many of these managers will find themselves in employment tribunals. The manager of my mothers home has understandably quit.

My mothers care home is set to lose 17 members of staff. They are already short staffed. There is a real possibility that the home will have to close or my mother will have to move.

Decisions certainly do have repercussions and in the case of care homes the repercussions of losing staff are likely to be catastrophic.

Care home workers are not well paid enough to do something they really don’t want to do, the hospitality industry is currently understaffed due to Brexit, so no doubt a lot of workers will vote with their feet.

@Mary1Mary

This is not about care homes. It's about medical tyranny.

You either believe the government should have full medical control over your body or you don't. It's really that simple.

The government are acting illegally here. There are several laws that protect the public from forced vaccinations. This law does not cancel out those existing laws.

Care home managers have been put in an impossible situation. They are forced to act illegally and break employment law or they will be fined. Many of these managers will find themselves in employment tribunals. The manager of my mothers home has understandably quit.

My mothers care home is set to lose 17 members of staff. They are already short staffed. There is a real possibility that the home will have to close or my mother will have to move.

It really isn't, I needed the influenza vaccine to work in certain healthcare roles (purely for others protection not my own).

Mandatory vaccinations for certain healthcare roles isn't a new policy. If this isn't something you're comfortable with then unfortunately you have to work in a different role.

I agree that ideally it would be part of a new contract rather than something you have to make a choice about when employed, but we're in a pandemic.

In this case,the decision is "do you have the vaccine or not?". If the answer is no, entirely your choice . Repercussion is. You loose your job. Your choice. But,as ever, with everything, decisions have repercussions

Another word for repercussions is blackmail.

It seems that many people don't understand the law. It is, and always has been illegal to force medical treatment on people. Medical consent must be given freely for any procedure.

Do you have a basic understanding of employment contracts? Do you understand that an employer simply cannot change the terms and conditions of your contract on a whim?

Care home workers are not well paid enough to do something they really don’t want to do, the hospitality industry is currently understaffed due to Brexit, so no doubt a lot of workers will vote with their feet.

Yes - as is their right

I'm feeling a bit sorry for myself today. I'm double vaccinated and spent the day getting diagnosed with Bell's palsy. On a short term contract that ends this month so that sick pay won't last long and I can't see my face to face interviews going well what with my slurred speech, blurred vision and facial paralysis and crappy reference as I'm now off sick. Apparently there's an increased risk of Bell's palsy with vaccinations; who knew? I might be that unlucky statistic or maybe it would of happened anyway. I don't think I'll be getting a booster shot tbh and I now understand why people who've had negative experience previously would be disinclined to get it.

@womaninatightspot Sorry to hear. I really don’t understand this viewpoint though.

Covid itself also carries a risk of Bell’s palsy, as do other viral infections, amongst other more serious issues. Even herpes can cause Bell’s palsy, but we know Covid is more likely to actually kill us than the vaccines.

I have carers in my home. I expect them to take all reasonable steps to reduce possible transmission and that includes being vaccinated.
I would not allow an unvaccinated carer into my home because I care far more about my family's health and wellbeing, than I do about the Carer's freedoms.
They can make the choice to not have the jab but they can't then work for me.
I do pay well above minimum/living wage because I value their work.
Fortunately, I've had no disagreement from them.

It's a job, and one of the few benefits of it being underpaid and low skilled is that care workers aren't trapped in it if they don't want to be vaccinated.

And the effects on the vulnerable people that people are so keen to protect of a further increase in care vacancies, are being studiously ignored. Who's addressing that?
The current vacancies aren't being addressed, as I said in a PP, there's 1000 care vacancies in my county alone, the sector is already short staffed. Some care employers are offering a £500/1000 sign on bonus - yet still paying minimum wage. There's plenty of interviews out there with care providers saying they are already having issues recruiting new staff.
While I'm not against vaccination, and am gladly double vaccinated myself, this is likely to cause a further shortfall in care workers because of the way it's been done, that's going to affect levels of care because no matter how much you shout that people in care deserve this and that, delivery relies on people available to deliver.
That, I am worried about, because I'm one of the ones starting to see the effects of barely enough staff changing to definitely not enough staff and watching and experiencing those left behind being pressured harder and harder to do more and more, rather than changing the way things are done overall to help recruitment and retainment of staff.

I think it's completely wrong unless the people most at risk it is supposed to protect, are forced to have it themselves.

Why?

I mean yes pretty much all of them will have as they're so high risk, but the problem is vaccine efficacy is low in this group.

Because an unvaccinated resident (or visitor) presents exactly the same risk to the other residents as an unvaccinated staff member does, and if it's about protecting the vulnerable then it should be across the board, to reduce the risk as much as possible, as that apparently is the aim here.
Why do the residents 'deserve' to be protected from non vaccinated staff members, but not unvaccinated fellow residents or visitors?

You can't use the flu jab as an example. Never has the flu jab been pushed and marketed in the way this vaccine has. Carers didn't have to get the flu jab previously to keep their jobs. Think about who works in care. Those people don't have many choices regarding work, so this is an absolute outrage about them being made to have it.

This who say oh they should get a new job, have you sat back and thought of the repercussions of a mass exodus in care? The vulnerable people in care will then have no staff to look after them, which in my opinion is worse than this.