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Original poster

Mandatory vaccine

77 replies

Walkingalone21 · 31/08/2021 09:30

What are peoples thoughts on the mandatory vaccine for all care home workers? If they choose not to have the vaccine they will loose their jobs on the 11th November 2021.
By now all of the residents will have been double jabbed and the majority of the care staff also. I think this is madness in an already under staffed industry especially as there is still no evidence that the vaccine stops or reduces the transmission. In a bid to protect the residents they will be putting them at risk by the severe shortage of staff.
I have so many questions around this.
Natural antibodies have the same if not better protection for the individual. Should that be taken into account too?
It seems that staff are being bullied and threatened into getting vaccinated by being told they will loose their jobs. Where is their choice in a sector that’s core values are care, empowerment and human rights?
Last years hero’s, this years unemployed it’s seems.

OP posts:
Original poster
Walkingalone21 · 31/08/2021 15:52

I have until the 11th of November to be double vaccinated or loose my job unless I have a medical exemption. On speaking to the doctor they don’t do exemption for a vaccine because it’s down to the individuals choice. Care home states they will not be liable if I become seriously ill because I would have chosen to have it. Even though I’m not choosing. I’m being threatened.

I think that’s why the doctor is speaking to their colleagues and getting back to me.

OP posts:
Maverickess · 31/08/2021 16:03

@Walkingalone21

I have until the 11th of November to be double vaccinated or loose my job unless I have a medical exemption. On speaking to the doctor they don’t do exemption for a vaccine because it’s down to the individuals choice. Care home states they will not be liable if I become seriously ill because I would have chosen to have it. Even though I’m not choosing. I’m being threatened.

I think that’s why the doctor is speaking to their colleagues and getting back to me.

This is appalling. And exactly the type of situation that will lead to good and experienced staff leaving. And an example of how this has not been thought through properly at all. No exemptions can be granted as it's choice, but a mandatory requirement for working in a care home. Mandatory means no choice, the government needs to sort this out.
bumbleymummy · 31/08/2021 17:20

@Marguerite2000

Sorry Bumbleymummy , I meant - neither previous infection or vaccination confers 100% immunity. They both confer a level of protection, but not immunity.
Yes, but we accept that the vaccine isn’t 100% effective and consider that it provides ‘good enough’ protection. Why shouldn’t we also accept that immunity from previous infection is also ‘good enough’? I’m referring to care workers who could lose their job even though they are immune and not putting people at risk, not their elderly patients.
Neron · 31/08/2021 18:40

@Maverickess yes you would think so! In the home SIL works at, it was only the carers that have been directed to have it or lose their job.

The home management may now have updated their stance based on the info you gave. I'll ask her.

Comefromaway · 31/08/2021 18:45

[quote Neron]@Maverickess yes you would think so! In the home SIL works at, it was only the carers that have been directed to have it or lose their job.

The home management may now have updated their stance based on the info you gave. I'll ask her.[/quote]
We were sent a letter by one of the care homes who we do their gas servicing for stating that as from November our engineers will have to be vaccinated, even though the boiler is serviced in a boiler house and he comes nowhere near any of the residents.

One of our engineers isn’t (we know as he’s told us) we don’t really consider it any of our business asking the others whether they are or not.

Neron · 31/08/2021 20:45

we don’t really consider it any of our business asking the others whether they are or not
Agreed

It's a shame, because care work is always short of staff and forcing/mandating this particular vaccine is going to make good carers leave.

MrsSkylerWhite · 31/08/2021 20:56

The vaccine does not stop or reduce the transmission as far as the data says”

Simply not true.

Maverickess · 31/08/2021 21:16

One of our engineers isn’t (we know as he’s told us) we don’t really consider it any of our business asking the others whether they are or not.

Well, under this legislation the home is going to need to ask for proof before they can allow any of your engineers on the premises, although if the boiler is outside and the engineer doesn't come in then that's covered in the post I put on further upthread.

It's going to have a knock on effect of possibly homes finding it hard to get tradespeople and services like hairdressing in house, or prices increasing.

Booknooks · 31/08/2021 21:18

There is already a shortage of staff, I guess the balance of whether having unvaccinated staff or not enough staff to safely do even the minimum required is the key question.

seb342 · 31/08/2021 21:33

No one wins in this situation. If it's mandatory then the care sector will be on its knees come winter and the residents will still suffer due to staff shortages and neglect because people are only human and can only do so much.

It's a sad situation for both staff and residents, and a slap in the face for everything the staff did since the start of the pandemic.

Dontwant2live · 31/08/2021 21:37

I got severe covid in April 2020. I am CEV so had both my vaccines by April 2021. I have just tested positive for covid again, although I'm not as ill as I was the 1st time, so I don't think the vaccines stop it as well as everyone hoped. I had the AZ vaccine.

Dontwant2live · 31/08/2021 21:38

So no, I don't think they should be mandatory

Comefromaway · 31/08/2021 23:37

@Maverickess

One of our engineers isn’t (we know as he’s told us) we don’t really consider it any of our business asking the others whether they are or not.

Well, under this legislation the home is going to need to ask for proof before they can allow any of your engineers on the premises, although if the boiler is outside and the engineer doesn't come in then that's covered in the post I put on further upthread.

It's going to have a knock on effect of possibly homes finding it hard to get tradespeople and services like hairdressing in house, or prices increasing.

The boiler house is indoors. As are all the rads when valves need changing etc. But we can attend to a leak as that’s an emergency.
Maverickess · 01/09/2021 13:18

@Booknooks

There is already a shortage of staff, I guess the balance of whether having unvaccinated staff or not enough staff to safely do even the minimum required is the key question.
It may force providers to increase pay and conditions, but actually what I think we'll see is higher turnover of unsuitable staff instead. Although I have seen companies advertising 'sign on bonuses' of £500-£1000. Still paying minimum wage though. Care is seen as a job anyone can do and that's because the entry requirements are a clean enhanced DBS (and some things are discounted anyway) and now a covid vaccination. Pays minimum wage and gives out zero hours contracts, no sick pay except SSP if you qualify, long unsociable hours and unless you're lucky, pay for your own uniform except your 1st tunic. It may increase demand for care workers with qualifications, but overall I don't think it'll make much difference as the DWP push people off benefits into care work regardless of suitability. It's the residents and those doing the job because they want to and feel a sense of connection with their residents that will suffer - and as ever no one will be listening.
Original poster
Walkingalone21 · 02/09/2021 06:32

It’s such a shame. I wonder why it hasn’t been made mandatory in the NHS yet?

OP posts:
Atmywitsend29 · 02/09/2021 06:41

I work in the care industry. It's necessary to reduce the risk to the people we care for.
Also I very much think its been very sensationalised, I've seen some carers who've refused the vaccine shout that "there will be no staff left", well there will. Most of us are vaccinated. We are just quieter than those refusing.

Then again, I've been in care for a very long time and have been vaccinated against all manner of nasties and I've never been the type to question the necessity to vaccinate care staff

FflosFfantastig · 02/09/2021 06:53

I am completely against any form of enforced vaccination.

minatrina · 02/09/2021 08:32

I will never cease to be amazed by people who think an anecdotal experience trumps clinical data. The covid vaccines categorically do reduce transmission.

TodayIsYesterday · 02/09/2021 09:31

It’s a very difficult topic.

I’m not vaccinated but can completely understand care homes wanting to minimise any risk to their vulnerable residents.

I do feel sorry for the staff if they don’t want to be vaccinated but if I worked in this field, I’d have to accept that I would not be able to at the moment as protecting the residents is as important as my wish not to be vaccinated.

I still wear a mask and try to avoid crowded places as I don’t want to put anyone at risk. I think there seems to be a lot of people who think everyone not being vaccinated is stupid and doesn’t care about anyone else which for me isn’t true at all.

Frazzled2207 · 02/09/2021 09:34

I'm not against the idea per se but am baffled as to why it applies to the care sector but not healthcare, especially as staff shortages are so well known.

Ultimately though I think both groups should have to have it to join the sector. Not sure about sacking people already there but if my parents were in a care home I'd 100% want the staff in the care home to be fully vaccinated

There def needs to be an allowance for genuine exceptions though

MissTrip82 · 02/09/2021 10:05

I don’t think most people objecting are making an informed decision at all I’m afraid.

I’m required to be vaccinated in my job - I simply cannot work in ICU without having a range of vaccines. This recognizes both my exposure risk, and the fact that my rights do not trump the rights of the vulnerable people who need my care.

I am free to exercise my right to refuse. In doing so I would need to find alternative employment.

Of the 100s of people I work with, not one has refused and all have done everything possible to ensure our households are vaccinated also. Perspective helps, I suppose.

Maverickess · 02/09/2021 11:33

Then again, I've been in care for a very long time and have been vaccinated against all manner of nasties and I've never been the type to question the necessity to vaccinate care staff

Can I ask you what you've been vaccinated against, when and who arranged it?

I've never had anything offered, or been asked about my vaccination status for anything in my time in care until covid, and even then it's only covid and as far as I'm aware, vaccination for anything else is not a requirement for working in care. I think that is part of the problem with this vaccination being introduced in this way - lack of prior expectation and education/knowledge around vaccination in general. Care staff do not have medical training in the same way nurses and doctors do.

Original poster
Walkingalone21 · 02/09/2021 17:59

I have only ever been offered the flu vaccine and could turn it down if we chose to, which I have. Like I said. I have worked in this sector for 10 years and now I am facing being vaccinated and the possibility of me becoming severely poorly or loosing my job.
At what point are we looking at the risks on an individual level. Again, why is natural antibodies not being taken into consideration?

We are talking about protecting the vulnerable.... which I do, every day by taking every reasonable precaution necessary. I do not think forcing and bullying staff to get a very new vaccine is reasonable, especially when someone has a massive history of adverse reactions to medication.

OP posts:
TheVolturi · 02/09/2021 18:08

No one should be forced to have anything injected into them - ever.

Seriously79 · 02/09/2021 18:40

I work in the care industry.

Nobody is in this job for the money. The question we ask is this:

'Why do you want to work for us?'

The majority say: 'I want to help people, look after them, give them a more fulfilling life, make their later years/ last days as comfortable as possible'

Surely wanting to 'look after' somebody means to protect their health and well being? If this vaccine will do that, as a carer who wants to help, support and make an elderly persons/ child's/ disabled persons life better - wouldn't you have it?