If the government were honest about the next 4 months

[RuleWithAWoodenFoot]

They'd say that children are probably going to catch covid, there is nothing to stop this happening. Lots of families will probably catch it off their children, school staff will probably catch it off children too.

Education is going to be disrupted again if the above happens. No way around it. But it could be 'over' by November when the bad weather kicks in and older folk start getting ill as per usual circumstances. At that point booster vaccs could start.

It's definitely 'an approach', but not telling people that this is the plan is unfair. Do you think people have realised this yet? Or are the Emperor's new clothes still in view?

5 hours is fine. The students coped brilliantly.

I can see you're just here on the wind up though and don't have anything useful to add to to the conversation.

No Im not here on the wind up. I'm here because I don't believe we should make children wear masks at school. I have a different opinion to you. Is that so hard to understand?

Just because you don't find my posts useful does not mean others won't.

5hours isn't fine in my opinion. It's awful.

They aren't useful, they're snipey and uninformative.

Is your opinion based on experience with children in school wearing masks? Or based on something Jim shared on Facebook?

Why are the kids more at risk of catching it than before ? Most adults they mix with are vaccinated. No cases of Covid in my Dcs class and he attended key workers classes this year too, no cases. In fact the only kids I've known to have it, have caught it from their parents so been isolating anyway.

@winwinning
Nationally case levels are high and there is no isolation of close contacts anymore. There are also no more masks in classrooms, no bubbles and windows can only be open as long as it doesn't "affect thermal comfort".

Don't use Facebook. Don't use social media in general. Doesn't matter what I base my opinion on, it's still my opinion.

Hercisback, so why do you think the government has stopped masks, bubbles and isolation then?

Compulsory vaccination is a slippery slope isn’t it, I shouldn’t think this or any democratic government would be wanting to enforce such a thing (too controlling)

Does anyone know why Covid is more transmissible and easier to catch/ spread than other viral diseases? Or is it just that the other diseases (the ones which have been around for centuries) we have got used to living with, and the scientific community has had much longer to develop vaccines and treatments etc. Or perhaps the historical diseases, nasty as they are, don’t have as high mortality/ severe outcomes(?)

Just the way Covid has gone around the world like crazy when, say for example, the Ebola crisis a few years back was (is) a highly infectious disease and deadly, but didn’t spread around the world in the same way, though it devastated Africa. Just putting it out there in case anyone knows why Covid is having much greater global reach and impact(?)

Because restrictions have been removed and covid is still here. Also as the majority of adults have been vaccinated we've left the children and those who don't produce antibodies from vaccination exposed. Add in the close contact, indoor environment of schools and there you have it.

Because they want everyone to catch it.

Not remotely bothered about DDs catching Covid, I do want them to get an invitation and a social life and have fun though!

@RuleWithAWoodenFoot

Nice post.

All of that is based on us maintaining the status quo in terms of variants, all bets are off if anything worse arrives into the mix.

I have listened to a few podcasts about variant stuff. Something about the spike protein or whatever on the virus (I don't understand the medical stuff in detail, but these were medical people speaking), means that general feeling is that it's unlikely to get more 'deadly' in terms of severe illness - against vaccines especially, but is more likely to be more easily transmissible.

The direction of travel is towards dominant variants being "worse".

Alpha put more people in hospital, in intensive care and in the ground than original covid.

And Delta has put more people in hospital, in intensive care, and in the ground that Alpha.

All a new variant has to be to be "worse" is more transmissible.

If people it can make seriously ill are dotted all over the country, which variant will get to more of them? A more deadly variant? Or one that spreads faster?

Hercisback, why do you think that? Genuine question.

Why are the kids more at risk of catching it than before?

On page one of the thread:

In school.
More transmissible variant (see July for examples)
No small/contained bubbles anymore.
No isolation of close contacts.
No notification to parents of cases in school.
No need for family members to isolate in an infected household.
No mitigation measures outside of school.
No mask wearing anywhere - public transport to school for eg.
More parents back at work places.

Mrshoho, so when do you think restrictions should be removed then?

A more deadly variant? Or one that spreads faster?

The spreading faster thing ends up more deadly - without vaccines. There was a lot of stuff going on the FT with that back when Delta first appeared. I don't know how it looked with vaccines. I'll see if I can find the stuff on it.

Rulewithawoodenfoot, your catastrophing slightly though. You don't actually know this will happen. Im genuinely not being rude but do you really think we can do another year of that?

Booster jabs are expected to start soon, they are already in some countries

But the plan is to only offer them to NHS frontline, over 80’s and vulnerable at the moment

The messaging in the press about schools all this week has changed.

Its been openly saying that there's going to be a big spike in cases due to schools. Members of the government have started to say this.

And its looking extremely likely 12 - 15 year olds will be vaccinated in schools in the next couple of weeks. Apparently schools are now being told to start planning for this.

The messaging on boosters has been shifting the other way with comments that suggest only the most elderly and vulnerable will get boosters for now, with more evidence needed for other over 50s groups who were initially expected to have them.

If you follow the tone and how the story changes you can see where government thinking is at, and I don't really think they are trying to hide either - indeed i think theyve been actively been trying to prepare the public for these outcomes.

Just because they were saying something different a few weeks ago doesn't mean thats what they are saying now. If you have missed the change in messaging, it doesn't mean the messaging hasnt changed.

I do think its worth looking for these type of small changes in tone in whats said because it really does help you see where big official announcements will be in a week or so. Usually government ministers have been saying something for a while both on and off the record before the big announcement. Which isn't really the way to do things properly but is how the uk government has been operating over the last good few years.

So i think its somewhat unfair to say the government aren't being honest about what happens now in the next 4 months.

We've been told its going to be rough. And the stuff on schools isn't where it was in mid june or even the end of july. Its definitely moving and there's definite concern at the highest levels.

The latest rumblings is that PM personally believes 12 - 15 year olds should be vaccinated as he is concerned about case numbers in schools... Even without the official word from the JCVI.

So expect the big announcement imminently.

There doesn't need to be a flashing light with a sign saying 'the policy and thinking has changed'. I think some people expect it to happen like that.

@Peteycat

Rulewithawoodenfoot, your catastrophing slightly though. You don't actually know this will happen. Im genuinely not being rude but do you really think we can do another year of that?

I’m curious to know, Do you think we can do a year of nothing and have a stable functioning society at the end of it?

You seem to think we have a say in what Covid will do, it won’t go away if we ignore it, that just makes matters worse.

Why are the kids more at risk of catching it than before?

1. Because the government has taken away all the protections in schools and 2. is allowing covid to spread unrestricted.

High case numbers are a threat to all of us, but anyone who is unvaccinated and spends their days indoors in poorly ventilated building with hundreds or thousands of other unvaccinated people is most at risk.

And that's our children.

@Peteycat

Mrshoho, so when do you think restrictions should be removed then?

I really don't know. I'm not looking forward to this coming Autumn/Winter. I think with no restrictions we'll still be facing disruption at best. I don't know how our NHS will stand up.

@Jellyfishnchips

Compulsory vaccination is a slippery slope isn’t it, I shouldn’t think this or any democratic government would be wanting to enforce such a thing (too controlling)

Does anyone know why Covid is more transmissible and easier to catch/ spread than other viral diseases? Or is it just that the other diseases (the ones which have been around for centuries) we have got used to living with, and the scientific community has had much longer to develop vaccines and treatments etc. Or perhaps the historical diseases, nasty as they are, don’t have as high mortality/ severe outcomes(?)

Just the way Covid has gone around the world like crazy when, say for example, the Ebola crisis a few years back was (is) a highly infectious disease and deadly, but didn’t spread around the world in the same way, though it devastated Africa. Just putting it out there in case anyone knows why Covid is having much greater global reach and impact(?)

Because COVID is highly transmissible and airborne whereas while Ebola is much deadlier you have to be in contact with bodily fluid to catch it.

Therefore stopping the spread in a Western country would actually be very easy.