Are you letting child have the vaccine?

[GiveMeAUserName123]

I was just wondering if you have a child/ren between the ages of 12-16, that don’t have any medical conditions, or live with family members that are more at risk, will you be letting them have the vaccine?

My eldest will be turning 12 in the winter and I imagine will be given the choice to have it. I don’t think I want her too (I’ve had mine) but obviously it’s her body and her choice which is something that is held in high regard at home, so won’t voice against it, but if she does choose to have it, is she too young to decide something like this, as I’m not sure a child could really understand the full risk/benefit side of things.

How are you feeling about it in general?

Plumedemon, do actually understand the implications of what you are saying? A green pass to address parents reticence? That is coercion and bullying. Not a good example really is it?

It is not a necessary risk at all. Just your daft opinion.

Is that how you want your kids to live growing up? In a world where they have to show a health pass? Where does it end?

@Plumedenom

In Italy and France they have made the green pass necessary in order to attend things like swimming lessons and football club in this age group, to try to address parents' reticence. It's working and I think we have to accept that 12-15 year olds make up a significant part of the UK population and need to be vaccinated in order to reach the highest percentage possible herd immunity at a population level. I doubt anyone is really chomping at the bit for this. It is a necessary risk, like many vaccines, for the common good.

But the green pass also includes proof of previous infection or recent negative test as well as vaccination.

That's not true. MMR refusal is higher in the middle classes than in more deprived areas. For some reason people believe that their non medical, non scientific degree make them more intelligent than epidemiologists and doctors.🙄

Ah toobigformyboots, people couldn't possibly have a different opinion without thinking they are above others. Could they?

A green pass to address parents reticence? That is coercion and bullying. Not a good example really is it?

No it's not really. And just a quick Google shows how unimpressed the French are with this.

I am not sure about my DC getting this, I am really torn, on the one hand yes I worry about long covid and protecting others around them, on the other I want to see more data about its safety profile in this age group. All I keep coming back to is the JCVI saying that risk does not outweigh the benefits.

I am an NHS nurse and have myself had all vaccinations as have my DC. Wrt Gillick competence when vaccines are given at school they use something called a patient group directive (essentially prescription for a large group), I cannot see the nurses going through the risk and benefits thoroughly enough to judge a 12 years old ability to consent. The government will not use this over parental consent.

A lot of my colleagues feel the same if me with regards to the vaccination. As I say I am torn and if I had to make the decision now based on what we know I would probably say no. Any medical procedure needs information and statistics before you can consent.

I'm also educated to post grad level, as are most of my friends and DH and his friends - they're mostly PhDs and plenty of medics. Adults all vax but no one in favour of getting kids vaccinated

But these anecdotes tell us nothing about what is happening at a population level. You have cited your experience above, but mine is completely different. And yes, I'm also educated to master's level and have a lot of friends who are doctors, PhDs etc. All of them have chosen to get their kids vaccinated where eligible. None of these anecdotes get us anywhere.

I do know one person (also master's educated) who doesn't want her kids vaccinated and hasn't been vaccinated herself, but she suffers with extreme health anxiety which is crippling at the best of times. Given that she is currently very unwell with covid, she may or may not change her mind.

green pass to address parents reticence? That is coercion and bullying. Not a good example really is it?

No it's not really. And just a quick Google shows how unimpressed the French are with this.

Thanks Joriss, we need to talk about this more as people just aren't understanding the implications and serious issues that come with these stupid passes.

am an NHS nurse and have myself had all vaccinations as have my DC. Wrt Gillick competence when vaccines are given at school they use something called a patient group directive (essentially prescription for a large group), I cannot see the nurses going through the risk and benefits thoroughly enough to judge a 12 years old ability to consent. The government will not use this over parental consent.

Rupertpenrysmistress, thank you so much for explaining that. You did it in such a good way.

@AlexaShutUp

I'm also educated to post grad level, as are most of my friends and DH and his friends - they're mostly PhDs and plenty of medics. Adults all vax but no one in favour of getting kids vaccinated

But these anecdotes tell us nothing about what is happening at a population level. You have cited your experience above, but mine is completely different. And yes, I'm also educated to master's level and have a lot of friends who are doctors, PhDs etc. All of them have chosen to get their kids vaccinated where eligible. None of these anecdotes get us anywhere.

I do know one person (also master's educated) who doesn't want her kids vaccinated and hasn't been vaccinated herself, but she suffers with extreme health anxiety which is crippling at the best of times. Given that she is currently very unwell with covid, she may or may not change her mind.

Its not anecdotes its posters real life experience, just because your phd friends want it it makes out experience 'anecdotal'

I'd put a bet on it its actually 50/50

people couldn't possibly have a different opinion without thinking they are above others. Could they?

Of course they can, people have different opinions all the time. Different opinions are class. However, many MC folk absolutely think they are above those poorer and in more deprived situations. And the idea that their "research into the vaccine" done on the internet is superior to the research done by multiple virologists, the world over, is laughable.

And the idea that their "research into the vaccine" done on the internet is superior to the research done by multiple virologists, the world over, is laughable

Oh well. You can go ahead and get your children vaccinated can't you. And others will make their own decisions about their own children. Not much you'll be able to do about that really if people decide they won't be going ahead with it. 🤷

[quote bumbleymummy]@MRex I’m highly educated and yes, most of our friends are highly educated professionals and live in less deprived areas and more would probably be classed as ‘vaccine hesitant’ irt vaccinating their children against coronavirus.

I think there was a study from the US recently that showed that people with PhDs were the least likely to be vaccinated.[/quote]
Nope, the statistics have been misreported by right wing US media, it's really important to go back to the source rather than biased media.
This is the actual researcher summary: www.upmc.com/media/news/072621-king-mejia-vaccine-hesitancy
Generally, COVID-19 vaccine hesitancy was higher among the young (ages 18-24), non-Asian people and less educated (high school diploma or less) adults, and those with Ph.D.s, with a history of a positive COVID-19 test, not worried about serious illness from COVID-19 and living in regions with greater support for Donald Trump in the 2020 election.
The PhD disparity reported is that those with PhD who originally answered they would not be vaccinated were less likely to change their minds than those of lower educational attainment.

I didn't say I was going to do anything about it @Jorris. They've been refusing vaccinations for decades and I have done nothing. I'm not sure what your point is.

Its not anecdotes its posters real life experience

Of course it's anecdotal, that's exactly what posters' real life experience is. I'm not denying people's experiences and I accept that they are different to my own. I am just saying that anecdotal evidence has no significance at a population level.

Posted too soon...

A few people self-reporting themselves as PhD who decided not to be vaccinated and did not change their minds, does not change the overall pattern that lower educational attainment aligns with higher vaccine hesitancy.

Meanwhile, back in the UK, where we didn't have vaccines turned into a political issue because all major parties support vaccination...
Again we see higher education levels = lower vaccine hesitancy: www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0889159121001100.

Same findings in other countries too e.g. Qatar: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8235273/.

Her point is that you just can't accept others feel differently. You have to make it some sort of class or education war. That's laughable.

@Peteycat Does quoting not work for you? Sometimes I get halfway through one of your posts and then realise you’re quoting someone else! :) If you put at the start and end of the text you are quoting (right up against the text with no spaces) it will make it italic^ or you can use at the start and end to make it bold*.

I do accept that people are different. I didn't make it a class or education war! It isn't a war!

Except in some folks wee heads.

Yes yours because you won't let it drop!

@MRex I think people are just posting their experience because they differ from what you said -

Those with higher education levels in the less deprived areas are more likely to mix with others with higher education levels, and they are all more likely to identify the lower risk of vaccine than illness. Lower education and higher deprivation are more likely to mix together, but are less likely to decide to vaccinate.

I don’t think we’re trying to stretch our own experiences to population level.

Bumbleymummy I will try I'm not very good at technology!

If it doesn’t work just put quotation marks around it so we know they’re not your words :)

On the other side topic, I don't see the EU "green pass" idea working in the UK at all, I'm immensely pro vaccine and can see why vaccines are necessary for care workers to reduce risks to vulnerable people as well as themselves. Anything that isn't related to working directly with highly vulnerable people cannot use that argument, because the effects on society are too broad for minimal benefit. Thankfully I can't see it being made legal to discriminate on this basis, because I can't think of where broad support would come from politically. What's more of an issue right now are companies like Pimlico Plumbers and and Goldman Sachs demanding that all employees get vaccinated to be able to work; I can see all the employer upside but it shouldn't be legal and I don't think it's reasonable. I've been waiting for the first legal case with interest, because I believe employers will find they are told they have no right to demand this even on health and safety grounds.

@AlexaShutUp

Its not anecdotes its posters real life experience

Of course it's anecdotal, that's exactly what posters' real life experience is. I'm not denying people's experiences and I accept that they are different to my own. I am just saying that anecdotal evidence has no significance at a population level.

And that applies to your experience too.