Surely this kills the idea of vaccine passports

[Nerdygirl]

So no if double jabbed can still pass it on surely vaccine passports are pointless

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-delta-variant-can-still-be-transmitted-by-people-who-are-double-jabbed-but-protection-against-illness-and-death-is-high-12384933

Vaccine protects from serious illness according to this so that’s good but whether you are vaccinated or not doesn’t mean you can’t pass it on so you shouldn’t surely discriminate. People are free to choose what to do for their personal health and equally shouldn’t be vilified

Sorry @ComtessDeSpair, was responding to wrong message there...

@Aposterhasnoname

Sigh. If you catch covid and are unvaccinated you have a higher chance of being seriously ill and needing hospital treatment. When transmission is high, we need to limit the number of people getting seriously ill, to prevent hospitals being overwhelmed. We can’t keep locking down, therefore restricting unvaccinated peoples access to crowded places where the virus could spread is a option. Why, after 18 months, do people not understand this simple concept?

So... should we stop fat people going to night clubs? Or at least consider it as an option when transmission is high.

So... should we stop fat people going to night clubs? Or at least consider it as an option when transmission is high.

If by “fat people” you mean clinically vulnerable, then yeah, in the event of high transmission it could be sensible to bring back shielding, although I’d hope they wouldn’t be quite as offensive you when articulating that.

@Peteycat

Vaccine passports are ridiculous. Are they going to add flu jabs etc on in the future?

Strictly speaking the vaccine passport (NHS Covid app) is a subset of your medical record. So it already does have you flu vaccination status, and other medical history.

For travel to specific countries there has been a need to show certification of various vaccines & innoculations
The ‘Covid passport’ is just one new simplified method of demonstrating specific cover introduced during an international pandemic

@Aposterhasnoname

Sigh. If you catch covid and are unvaccinated you have a higher chance of being seriously ill and needing hospital treatment. When transmission is high, we need to limit the number of people getting seriously ill, to prevent hospitals being overwhelmed. We can’t keep locking down, therefore restricting unvaccinated peoples access to crowded places where the virus could spread is a option. Why, after 18 months, do people not understand this simple concept?

Yeah but the main ones not vaccinated are the very young who are very unlikely to need treatment anyway. I read the other day that 93% of adults have antibodies now. If the NHS cant handle it now, then it's not fit for purpose.

@Tommika people keep bringing up the yellow fever vaccine. It’s completely different. Yellow fever has a much higher CFR, few countries require it and people in those countries are not required to present their vaccine certificate to access a bar/restaurant/club.

Have no problem with a vaccine passport. It’s up to other countries to set their requirements for entry so if showing an App on my phone means I can travel to see my family and friends, it’s no problem.
Seems a good idea for large scale events so we’ll have to see what the government sets out.

Yeah but the main ones not vaccinated are the very young who are very unlikely to need treatment anyway. I read the other day that 93% of adults have antibodies now. If the NHS cant handle it now, then it's not fit for purpose.

And the very young are also not going to be in nightclubs.

I cannot believe how many people think that in order to obtain freedom you have to show a vaccine passport for something that doesn’t even mean you won’t infect people . It’s a very easy way for the government to drive the behaviours they want for everything , and if you can’t see the dangers in this then you are very naive

@Nerdygirl

I cannot believe how many people think that in order to obtain freedom you have to show a vaccine passport for something that doesn’t even mean you won’t infect people . It’s a very easy way for the government to drive the behaviours they want for everything , and if you can’t see the dangers in this then you are very naive

I find the talk of freedom and "basic human rights" distasteful when set against situations in countries like North Korea and Afghanistan.

The government didn't propose vaccine passports as a way of curbing your rights for the sake of it (which is what many seem to think), it's simply a public health measure that, on a population level, would reduce transmission.

I disagree , I don’t see the issue of questioning the rationale behind limiting freedom on people being still being a risk to others because of their vaccination status . Unless it’s purely to coerce people to get the vaccination to reduce the load on the NHS. It’s not wrong to question it from a human rights perspective and feel for countries like North Korea in parallel. Or indeed China where much of your freedom is granted based on your social credit score. This, actually highlights that there are governments who don’t do the right things by their citizens. So is it such a leap to question the motives here ?

YY @Nerdygirl Its not a race to the bottom................i hope!

@Nerdygirl

I disagree , I don’t see the issue of questioning the rationale behind limiting freedom on people being still being a risk to others because of their vaccination status . Unless it’s purely to coerce people to get the vaccination to reduce the load on the NHS. It’s not wrong to question it from a human rights perspective and feel for countries like North Korea in parallel. Or indeed China where much of your freedom is granted based on your social credit score. This, actually highlights that there are governments who don’t do the right things by their citizens. So is it such a leap to question the motives here ?

In a short answer - yes it is a leap to question the motives of the government regarding the use of vaccine or immune status passports beyond that of minimising transmission of coronavirus.

They had already stated anyone can self-exempt. Beyond that, a government document has already been released stating they won't be used. They are mandated for certain healthcare roles, which is not not new policy seeing as other vaccines are regarding in some roles.

Long answer - was discussed to death on the infamous state of fear threads. We are not China, the government has no desire to control us for the sake of control. No one has ever been able to give a straight answer regarding what those in power would gain from implementing vaccine passports unnecessarily.

it's simply a public health measure that, on a population level, would reduce transmission.

Not sure how you can argue that exempting people from testing/quarantine/isolation when they are still capable of contracting and transmitting the virus will actually reduce transmission tbh.

@bumbleymummy

it's simply a public health measure that, on a population level, would reduce transmission.

Not sure how you can argue that exempting people from testing/quarantine/isolation when they are still capable of contracting and transmitting the virus will actually reduce transmission tbh.

Except that isn't what I said is it? You are so keen to throw any argument against the idea of vaccination @bumbleymummy

There are many iterations of a vaccine or immune status passport that could be implemented, which various have pros and cons for the economy and public health.

@Aposterhadnoname, so would you mandate it, then? That clinically vulnerable people aren't ALLOWED in nightclubs? That is different to voluntary shielding, surely? I deliberately say "fat people" because I think that's how a rule like that would be experienced by people who were overweight.

I mean, can you imagine? "We only let slim people in our nightclubs because the others could be a burden to the NHS"?

Except that isn't what I said is it? You are so keen to throw any argument against the idea of vaccination

Thats what the vaccine passport does though. No, not against vaccination. Against, vaccine passports.

The thing is many of the unvaccinated people I know are not adverse to doing LFTs for the time being but as they still have to isolate after close contact, it seems that unvaccinated people are less likely to be infected and therefore why on earth, if they don't have covid, should they be banned from public places. Healthy 30 and under year olds are very unlikely to be seriously ill and so it seems like it is manipulation to get a jab rather than actual concern for the NHS and people's health.

“New research has found that double vaccinated people were three times less likely than unvaccinated people to test positive for the coronavirus”

www.imperial.ac.uk/news/227713/coronavirus-infections-three-times-lower-double/

@Nerdygirl so if you have AZ jab, you are 61% less likely to contract COVID (which is stated in the article you linked). You cannot infect others if you don’t have COVID. So therefore by having the vaccine you are significantly less likely to give it to other people.

As has been previously said - you also cannot vaccinate against stupidity.

@bumbleymummy

Except that isn't what I said is it? You are so keen to throw any argument against the idea of vaccination

Thats what the vaccine passport does though. No, not against vaccination. Against, vaccine passports.

Think others have said differently about you on other threads and a 10year history against vaccination?

You spend all day every day arguing against you being treated any differently

As others have said many who aren’t vaccinated, for whatever reason, would happily for example take regular tests instead

But nope. Not you

[quote underneaththeash]@Nerdygirl so if you have AZ jab, you are 61% less likely to contract COVID (which is stated in the article you linked). You cannot infect others if you don’t have COVID. So therefore by having the vaccine you are significantly less likely to give it to other people.

As has been previously said - you also cannot vaccinate against stupidity.[/quote]
This so many many times

@Bobholll

It does reduce transmission though. Not entirely & sadly, not as much as hoped with Delta. But it still reduces it by around 1/3. You are less likely to get infected & less likely to be infectious for as long. So it’s still better to be vaccinated than not. And the vaccinated are less likely to get it & pass it on. The vaccinated are also far, far likely to get seriously ill & need hospital. So if you have a club of 100 people who are vaccinated, while they might spread covid to each other, they aren’t likely to need hospital & therefore not overwhelming the NHS. If you have a club of 100 unvaccinated people, they are far more likely to need hospital & thus cause a problem to the NHS. Hence why unvaccinated people need to prove their covid negative status for some events, travel etc.

Unless the club is a bridge club, chances are none of them will be seriously ill.

@sleepwouldbenice I don’t really care what other people have said. I’m not against vaccination but I’m very against vaccine passports and I will argue about anyone being treated differently based on their vaccine status.