Surely this kills the idea of vaccine passports

[Nerdygirl]

So no if double jabbed can still pass it on surely vaccine passports are pointless

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-delta-variant-can-still-be-transmitted-by-people-who-are-double-jabbed-but-protection-against-illness-and-death-is-high-12384933

Vaccine protects from serious illness according to this so that’s good but whether you are vaccinated or not doesn’t mean you can’t pass it on so you shouldn’t surely discriminate. People are free to choose what to do for their personal health and equally shouldn’t be vilified

I am happily double vaccinated but absolutely detest the prospect of covid passports especially in domestic settings like some EU countries and US states have implemented. Where does it stop?

It also significantly reduces the risk that you will be infected at all. By 75% or 61% at three months after the second vaccine.

I caught Covid from a double vaxxed person. Covid passports have always been a stupid idea to me.

I think internation travrl
PPź

I thought they were being suggested as a way to coerce hesitant folk into getting the jabs. Not-so-subtly tell them that they'd be punished for refusing by being refused entry to hospitality, entertainment etc.

Sorry! I meant to say that in that case, international travel should be allowed. Since all the variants are in the UK anyway.

Vaccine passports are stupid. I think the removal of certain restrictions of vaccinated people needs to be re-looked at as well.

There was an outbreak of covid last week on an almost fully vaccinated cruise ship. 27 people tested positive all vaccinated.

www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/08/15/carnival-cruise-covid-19-outbreak-27-vaccinated-people-test-positive-for-coronavirus/

I don't like how this has become a case of vaccinated vs unvaccinated. The unvaccinated getting the blame for spreading it around when it's very clear that vaccinated people still pass it on and catch it. And yes, perhaps still not as bad as an unvaccinated person. But I feel like the Govt has mislead people into believing that vaccinated people can't pass it on.

@StillCounting123

I thought they were being suggested as a way to coerce hesitant folk into getting the jabs. Not-so-subtly tell them that they'd be punished for refusing by being refused entry to hospitality, entertainment etc.

This. Where I live it has prompted a surge in vaccinations as if you can’t go anywhere once summer is over and outdoor dining etc. is no longer possible it does limit your social life. That and the fact the something like 90% of people in ICU from covid are unvaccinated.

Some employers are starting to demand vaccine certificates from their employees, but that’s a bit of a rocky road and there has been pushback from unions. HCPs who are anti vax have been suspended though, if you work in a healthcare setting you’re expected to be vaccinated, for your own health as well as that of your patients.

It does reduce transmission though. Not entirely & sadly, not as much as hoped with Delta. But it still reduces it by around 1/3. You are less likely to get infected & less likely to be infectious for as long. So it’s still better to be vaccinated than not. And the vaccinated are less likely to get it & pass it on. The vaccinated are also far, far likely to get seriously ill & need hospital. So if you have a club of 100 people who are vaccinated, while they might spread covid to each other, they aren’t likely to need hospital & therefore not overwhelming the NHS. If you have a club of 100 unvaccinated people, they are far more likely to need hospital & thus cause a problem to the NHS. Hence why unvaccinated people need to prove their covid negative status for some events, travel etc.

If you’re fully vaccinated you’re less likely to catch the virus, less likely to transmit it if you do have it, and less likely to experience severe illness or hospitalisation. A nightclub full of fully vaccinated people might therefore result in some transmission and resulting mild illness; but allowing into that nightclub people who are much more likely to catch the virus, much more likely to experience severe illness if they do catch it, and much more likely to transmit it to others, also possibly unvaccinated, after they’ve left the nightclub, is far riskier.

Vaccine passports are ridiculous. Are they going to add flu jabs etc on in the future?

I know more double vaccinated people that have had covid then people with no vaccine at all. Most of them quite ill too, far more than unvaccinated ones. I'm no longer convinced getting vaccinated was the right thing to do. I won't be taking any booster and do not agree with vaccine passports.

They still make it much less likely you'll catch it in the first place so overall a fully vaccinated person is less of a risk than an unvaccinated one, simply as they'll be less likely to have it.

@Mantlemoose

I know more double vaccinated people that have had covid then people with no vaccine at all. Most of them quite ill too, far more than unvaccinated ones. I'm no longer convinced getting vaccinated was the right thing to do. I won't be taking any booster and do not agree with vaccine passports.

There have been a number of threads discussing this. As the percentage of people who are vaccinated goes up then you're more likely to know more vaccinated people with it than without. That's a simple numbers game.

FWIW at the moment I know more unvaccinated or partially vaccinated people with Covid than fully vaccinated - but they are all young people, approx 16-20y ish. Their symptoms are like having a nasty cold down to no symptoms at all. The fully vax people I've known with it are all cv or CEV right now. Their symptoms have been a nasty cold with some breathing issues, but not hospital level.

Many of the adults my own age I know (through work) all had Covid in October time so before vaccines. So assume most still have antibodies from that as well as their vaccines.

Yes, you’ve not bothered reading the whole article OP.
If you want to go somewhere you need to have the jab.

@Peteycat

Vaccine passports are ridiculous. Are they going to add flu jabs etc on in the future?

Coronavirus isn't 'flu, it's a massively downplaying it's impact.

Not saying vaccine or immune status passports should be used domestically, but it's easy to see the rationale (i.e., as a public health measure, they would reduce transmission).

We don't need to control 'flu or other infectious diseases to the same degree, hence why it's a silly comparison.

@Abraxan

They still make it much less likely you'll catch it in the first place so overall a fully vaccinated person is less of a risk than an unvaccinated one, simply as they'll be less likely to have it.

Yes

The viral load once infected is currently not ascertained (studies have produced conflicting results) however vaccinated people are far less likely to get infected in the first place, and are infectious for a shorter duration.

Vacccination, on a population level, reduces transmission.

Sigh. If you catch covid and are unvaccinated you have a higher chance of being seriously ill and needing hospital treatment. When transmission is high, we need to limit the number of people getting seriously ill, to prevent hospitals being overwhelmed. We can’t keep locking down, therefore restricting unvaccinated peoples access to crowded places where the virus could spread is a option. Why, after 18 months, do people not understand this simple concept?

Oh I do. I was just playing devil's advocate. Treating the vaxxed and unvaxxed the same makes no sense at all to me

I don't think there will be vaccine passports for domestic settings, but you will require evidence for travel to many countries, like it or not. I expect the nightclub proposal to be dropped at some point.

Yep. They’re a stupid idea. The sooner they’re gone the better.

@Aposterhasnoname

Sigh. If you catch covid and are unvaccinated you have a higher chance of being seriously ill and needing hospital treatment. When transmission is high, we need to limit the number of people getting seriously ill, to prevent hospitals being overwhelmed. We can’t keep locking down, therefore restricting unvaccinated peoples access to crowded places where the virus could spread is a option. Why, after 18 months, do people not understand this simple concept?

Actually, it depends on your age and any underlying conditions. A vaccinated 60/70 year old is still more at risk of becoming seriously ill than an unvaccinated, healthy 30 year old.

If you look at hospital admissions, the highest admissions (and deaths) are still in the older age groups.

Not sure what you mean @underneaththeash . People can still spread it so discriminating on vaccine status makes no sense whatsoever .

I expect the nightclub proposal to be dropped at some point.

Yep, when they realise they can't coerce any more teens to have the jab.

@ComtesseDeSpair

If you’re fully vaccinated you’re less likely to catch the virus, less likely to transmit it if you do have it, and less likely to experience severe illness or hospitalisation. A nightclub full of fully vaccinated people might therefore result in some transmission and resulting mild illness; but allowing into that nightclub people who are much more likely to catch the virus, much more likely to experience severe illness if they do catch it, and much more likely to transmit it to others, also possibly unvaccinated, after they’ve left the nightclub, is far riskier.

Should we also stop fat people from going clubbing? They're much more likely to end up in hospital with COVID.