Vaccine in 12-16 year olds?

[beckypv]

I’m trying to work understand the real reason why 12-16 aren’t currently being offered the vaccine. I know they have said that it is because they are still weighing up the personal risk benefit to the child. Is that actually true? or is it because they are not yet in a position logistically to role it out fully to this age group, or they are actually thinking globally in terms of diverting vaccine resources to the rest of the world?
I ask this because my 12 year old son falls into the general ‘vulnerable category’ because he is on multiple immunosuppressant drugs and will be offered the vaccine soon. We have been told over the last year that JIA kids are no more vulnerable to Covid than other kids, therefore I am concerned he has been put in the vulnerable catagory under a wide sweeping brush and that actually it is no more appropriate for him to have the covid vaccine than other children.
So basically, we want to make to correct decision for him so am trying to understand the science behind not vaccinating children versus the political message.
Hope that makes sense 😀

I’m not that invested as no 12-15 age here

But the little darling stuff sounds like a bit sour and not sure what the calpol has to do with it - is a type you are imagining?

But anyway I have zero issue with children who are unvaccinated. Pure choice. Imo the vaccine for dc is for their benefit if they have it if they get covid. There’s no reason for me to think about unvaccinated.

Yes, it’s a specific type I’m thinking of in our own school. Yep, pretty sour on them from previous experience - sending sick kids into school with fevers, d&v etc so they don’t miss out on 100% attendance.

I’d like to think that most people will feel the same as you and be sensible about not worrying about the decisions that others have made but sadly, I think a lot will not.

What Bumbley is trying to highlight there with the calpol scenario is double standards. I know exactly what she means. I know loads of kids who were cruelly and selfishly sent into school clearly unwell before this. Just because parents couldn't be arsed to keep them at home. Or needed to go to work. Now we have people saying the opposite, ooh little germ carriers etc. Spreaders. I just don't get it either.

Schools actually before the pandemic award attendance certificates out, and has everyone forgotten that if your child missed a certain amount of school then you were threatened with the authorities? Some people have very short term memories. That was going on during swine flu etc.

so lower than the older groups,

Oh for goodness sake. 🙄 only lower as some are awaiting their second vaccine. Obviously. Not lower because of less uptake, as you implied. You also gave the impression that there were many 18 - 24 yo not getting vaccinated, again, untrue. The figures bear this out.

I get the type but I thought they might be more likely not to vaccinate - but maybe not

I agree though that germ spreader narrative wrt to children and Covid should be banished forever.

I can’t stand that kind of thing.

Plenty of studies have shown that immunity after infection lasts 9+ months. (A recent preprint actually found it lasted 12 months)

What's your point here? It means that even those who caught Covid will require vaccination, as they have immunity for a short period. So those who caught Covid in March 2020 for example, required vaccination.

You are not making much any sense

against this one virus that they may have already had?

And will potentially catch, and transmit, again.

Sorry but I don't do the whole "risk your child for the benefit of wider society thing"

Given that this virus has caused deaths in the millions, severe suffering and extended lockdowns & cessation of normal life for most of the world, this is a singularly selfish attitude.

There isn't a risk to your child. Of course, you are correct that no-one has to vaccinate themselves or their children, if they prefer not to.

MarshaBradyo yes unfortunately they are the most vocal about the vaccine. I tie them in with the antibiotic abusers.

I mean who take antibiotics for a sneeze.

@Watapalava

Earrings

Can you please point me to the links on Ecdc site as I can’t find UK on it at all

I don't think it's there. I just checked quickly.

If I'm correct, it's only showing EU / EEA countries, so that's why

www.ecdc.europa.eu/en

@EarringsandLipstick

Sorry but I don't do the whole "risk your child for the benefit of wider society thing"

Given that this virus has caused deaths in the millions, severe suffering and extended lockdowns & cessation of normal life for most of the world, this is a singularly selfish attitude.

There isn't a risk to your child. Of course, you are correct that no-one has to vaccinate themselves or their children, if they prefer not to.

I disagree with the selfish part. Very much so and so do JCVI as the benefit has to be to the group having vaccine. No one can put this selfish label on anyone not giving vaccine to dc.

It doesn’t mean I won’t get it for dc as it will be a measure of their risk - as abstract as that is.

There absolutely is a risk to the child. Come on everyone knows that. The question is how big is the risk.

Let me make this clear. It is NOT selfish to not vaccinate a child. Children should not be used to protect adults.

@Peteycat

Ollyollyoxen I know it's not mandatory. I asked if it will become that way. So I don't know what you are saying??

I also never said we were living in a totalitarian state. I said sliding into. Don't twist my words. I'll pull you up on it everytime.

No. It won't become mandatory. As the PP said to you.

Neither the UK or Ireland are anything close to totalitarian regimes & it's insulting to those who do experience such regimes to imply so.

@Peteycat

It's just I'm surrounded at the moment by armchair scientists who interpret data their way and don't look for non main stream data.

'Non mainstream data' aka conspiracy bullshit 🤨

I would prefer my children are not vaccinated as their risk from covid is negligible and their is some risk (still small) from the vaccine.

That's your opinion. I am setting out to insult anyone who lives under those regimes. But they exist obviously. I'm concerned that things are changing dramatically and not for the good of the people.

I am not setting out

Meant to say

@bumbleymummy

The JCVI are taking vaccination coverage and antibody levels in the U.K. when they are making decisions about risks and benefits to children here. Those risks and benefits will be different in other countries where fewer adults may be vaccinated or there is a lower percentage of the population with antibodies.

Utter nonsense. Ireland is ahead of the UK in vaccination rates & there is no way to measure 'antibody levels'

Honestly I'm embarrassed for you, the way you keep spouting rubbish even when you're given the facts.

Yes there's a lot of conspiracy theories around. Which yes alot are as you say bullshit. Though a conspiracy is where someone conspires. These things implemented have been done under our noses.

Unvaccinated people being shunned, insulted, losing their jobs, being excluded from events etc.

What? Where has this happened? How would anyone know, bar for events, which makes sense.

Why are you embarrassed for her? She's stating her point as she is allowed.

@Peteycat

Employers are emailing staff openly asking who is vaccinated and who isn't. That is not quietly getting on with their lives.

Not where I am.

What employers are doing this?

@TurquoiseBaubles

It's interesting to read others' opinions on this. Obviously I disagree with many of your points, and it seems scientific advisors in most countries also disagree, but I suspect there's not much point in links and figures and nitty-gritty as I presume no matter what facts either side produces the other side won't agree.

However, I stick by my original point; if children (or their parents) want to be vaccinated, they should be allowed to do so (once the vaccine is approved in their country, of course). I'm not (nor have I seen anyone else) say all children should be vaccinated.

What people do in their own houses and their own lives is their own business. But just as an individual is allowed to not be vaccinated, another individual should be allowed to decide who else not to be in contact with.

You can't have it both ways - if you want the freedom to refuse vaccination, you can't then turn around and complain that others are exercising their freedom to refuse to be in close contact with you.

Great post.