Vaccine in 12-16 year olds?

[beckypv]

I’m trying to work understand the real reason why 12-16 aren’t currently being offered the vaccine. I know they have said that it is because they are still weighing up the personal risk benefit to the child. Is that actually true? or is it because they are not yet in a position logistically to role it out fully to this age group, or they are actually thinking globally in terms of diverting vaccine resources to the rest of the world?
I ask this because my 12 year old son falls into the general ‘vulnerable category’ because he is on multiple immunosuppressant drugs and will be offered the vaccine soon. We have been told over the last year that JIA kids are no more vulnerable to Covid than other kids, therefore I am concerned he has been put in the vulnerable catagory under a wide sweeping brush and that actually it is no more appropriate for him to have the covid vaccine than other children.
So basically, we want to make to correct decision for him so am trying to understand the science behind not vaccinating children versus the political message.
Hope that makes sense 😀

@parietal

I think that, for a child with no vulnerability, the risks from covid are v v low so the benefits of the vaccine are not that clear.

but for kids with any vulnerability, the calculation changes dramatically and the vaccine is worth it. so if you are offered, get it.

DD wants to have it to protect her CEV brother.

What channels do you follow out of curiosity? The bbc? I haven't personally seen the original data, I'm just told what it is. Have you seen it personally?

@Peteycat

You hope teenagers are vaccinated with a trial drug? To all those who say it's not a trial. Yes it is, in black and white on government website. No data. Not completed phases.

Again, I would like 12-15 year olds to be offered it, in line with the majority of other western countries who have taken expert advice.

Why do you feel you know better than experts with decades of experience and expertise in this area? I find it crazy that people how people can overestimate their own knowledge in something to such a staggering degree.

It is not a "trial" drug. Phase III trials have been completed and it has been authorised for use in this age group. Data collection continues, and trials in specific subgroups are ongoing, as is standard practise.

@Peteycat

What channels do you follow out of curiosity? The bbc? I haven't personally seen the original data, I'm just told what it is. Have you seen it personally?

No of course I haven't seen the original data as I'm not working in this area, and as I'm not an infectious disease epidemiologist, even if I could access it I don't consider myself qualified to make a decision based on it

I don't think that. I have this thing that many have forgotten existed. Gut instinct and a very good idea when something is a bit off.

It is a trial drug.

@Peteycat

And what the hell does raw data mean?

Raw data would be data from each individual and their outcomes. This is what is used by epidemiologists and statisticians when they make statements like "the benefits outweigh the risks".

I think it’s more a supply issue for the uk. Where I live now all my teens are fully vaccinated.

@Peteycat

No Im not an epidemiologist, but then again neither are you.

Actually I am.

As I've said in a couple of posts, I'm not an infectious disease epidemiologist, nor have I seen the raw data that allowed experts put out this advice, and so don't consider myself qualified to make a decision.

I do however, trust the experts that advise that the benefits outweigh the risks, hence why I think this age group should be offered it.

It's definitely not a supply issue. Stop scaremongering.

Your post is confusing, you either are or aren't an epidemiologist. Hey this is the Internet though, I could be anything I wanted on here.

I had my CEV child vaccinated - had sleepless nights worrying about it but felt it was the right thing to do because of the risk of long Covid and any potential effects on her disability.

What worries me is that schools are not able to properly ventilate spaces and SD/mask wearing will not be happening next term.

I'm working with hundreds of unvaccinated international students so am at very high risk of catching and/or transmitting any new variants. My employer has not put in any provision to keep me or others with CEV relatives safe from this virus.

We all have our individual risk factors to weigh up but it's a very tough decision 🤷‍♀️

@Peteycat

Your post is confusing, you either are or aren't an epidemiologist. Hey this is the Internet though, I could be anything I wanted on here.

You can be an epidemiologist without being an infectious disease epidemiologist.

Just googled epidemiologist meaning, you either are ot you aren't I'm so confused.

@Peteycat

Your post is confusing, you either are or aren't an epidemiologist. Hey this is the Internet though, I could be anything I wanted on here.

You understand that the field of epidemiology isn't just epidemics and infectious disease?

That's why the job title "infectious disease epidemiologist" exists.

@Peteycat

Just googled epidemiologist meaning, you either are ot you aren't I'm so confused.

I think you need to google again perhaps

Ah OK. So you work with diseases not infectious ones. So your job is totally irrelevant to this discussion.

@Peteycat

Ah OK. So you work with diseases not infectious ones. So your job is totally irrelevant to this discussion.

This seems to be going round in circles, but yes, I stated it was irrelevant and I only brought it up because you said "well you're not an epidemiologist" and so it seemed appropriate

As I've said in a couple of posts, I'm not an infectious disease epidemiologist, nor have I seen the raw data that allowed experts put out this advice, and so don't consider myself qualified to make a decision.

I do however, trust the experts that advise that the benefits outweigh the risks, hence why I think this age group should be offered it.

It's just I'm surrounded at the moment by armchair scientists who interpret data their way and don't look for non main stream data.

@Peteycat

It's just I'm surrounded at the moment by armchair scientists who interpret data their way and don't look for non main stream data.

what in gods name is "non mainstream" data

as I have said, this decision was made using all available raw data. You can argue with it's interpretation or the analytic methods if you know them, but I'm not sure what you mean by "non mainstream data".

I'm questioning everything at the moment because the jabs are being given by non qualified people in vaccination centres so forgive me for being apprehensive about peoples knowledge and experience.

@Peteycat

I'm questioning everything at the moment because the jabs are being given by non qualified people in vaccination centres so forgive me for being apprehensive about peoples knowledge and experience.

You realise that the people giving the jabs aren't the people weighing up evidence? They follow policy and guidance which has been set by experts.

**ArseInTheCoOpWindow

It seems every country in the Western world is offering it except U.K. Even Ireland.

Even Ireland?

@sirfredfredgeorge

Vaccinating non CEV 12-17 year olds will kill 1/2 a kid, covid maybe 1/3rd of a kid (probably less) both numbers are completely tiny, the risk is extremely low

Vaccinating CEV 12-17 year olds in the next month will divert millions of doses that could be in use in other places in the world, and would kill maybe 10,000.

That is the reason we should be against vaccinating kids - not the risk or benefit to them, it's the diversion of vaccines away from those more vulnerable.

But we're not even vaccinating all CEV children at the moment, just a particular subset of them.

There are children who are both CEV and CV who are not eligible for vaccination, and will be expected to return to schools without mitigations next month.

The JCVI have refused to explain what scientific evidence they have used to come to their decision. There should be transparency, particularly when there are rumours of political interference, and we are the outliers in taking this decision.

I am desperate for my teen to have it so that we can stop shielding and get back to something more "normal". Desperate.

They are not medically trained though.