Vaccine in 12-16 year olds?

[beckypv]

I’m trying to work understand the real reason why 12-16 aren’t currently being offered the vaccine. I know they have said that it is because they are still weighing up the personal risk benefit to the child. Is that actually true? or is it because they are not yet in a position logistically to role it out fully to this age group, or they are actually thinking globally in terms of diverting vaccine resources to the rest of the world?
I ask this because my 12 year old son falls into the general ‘vulnerable category’ because he is on multiple immunosuppressant drugs and will be offered the vaccine soon. We have been told over the last year that JIA kids are no more vulnerable to Covid than other kids, therefore I am concerned he has been put in the vulnerable catagory under a wide sweeping brush and that actually it is no more appropriate for him to have the covid vaccine than other children.
So basically, we want to make to correct decision for him so am trying to understand the science behind not vaccinating children versus the political message.
Hope that makes sense 😀

Uptake is lower in the younger age groups in other countries.

Well, it's not in Ireland. What's wrong with you? The % is only lower in the 18 - 24 age group because some are still waiting for their second vaccine. Read the figures yourself, what more can I say. 🤷🏻‍♀️

My point was simply to correct you when you said that we didn’t know if immunity lasts for 9 months. We do.

We don't, not definitively.

Here's a BMJ direct quote:

This is difficult to say definitively. When the body’s immune system responds to an infection, it isn’t always clear how long any immunity that develops will persist.
Covid-19 is a very new disease, and scientists are still working out precisely how the body fends off the virus.
There is reason to think that immunity could last for several months or a couple of years,

www.bmj.com/content/bmj/373/bmj.n1605.full.pdf

So it ranges from several months to potentially years.

Hardly definitive. Unsurprisingly as it's a new disease with much more to learn about it.

@EarringsandLipstick

It has to benefit the group being vaccinated.

It will.

In Ireland, and most other European countries, this is accepted. The UK is the outlier.

So what?

You have talked about other groups benefitting so obviously you think that’s hood enough reason

I don’t. And neither do JCVI

Hood - good

Vaccination will not benefit the teens

They don’t have to isolate anymore

Many have had it and those who haven’t have likely been exposed

They rarely get symptoms so won’t be testing as much so less diagnosis (this even less isolations)

They get less symptoms with covid than vaccine

Personally I choose to vaccinate my dc who can.

But the selfish argument of you don’t really is not on.

Fine if you want it in another country but her 12-15 isn’t happening yet so really it’s irrelevant.

How satisfying that I can fling this right back at you:

Well, how incredibly stupid of you then!

I did type quickly in my earlier response; I should have said, no way of measuring antibody levels that can influence decisions in the general population about vaccination.

You can of course test antibody levels, with varying degrees of success / accuracy - see here: www.nhmrc.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/reports/Committee%20reports/nchrac-report-Accurately-measuring-antibody-levels-to-better-understand-population-and-individual-immunity0620.pdf in those who've had Covid but it's not been done for those who haven't tested positive, other than via sampling, and is not clear how accurate antibody checks are post-vaccination either.

Delighted you've picked up on a hastily written post of mine; when you have repeated entirely false information throughout this thread, ignoring evidence provided to you.

You have talked about other groups benefitting so obviously you think that’s hood enough reason

I don't think you are reading my posts Marsha. You said it didn't benefit the group getting it. It does. In a number of ways that I listed in an earlier post.

@EarringsandLipstick

You have talked about other groups benefitting so obviously you think that’s hood enough reason

I don't think you are reading my posts Marsha. You said it didn't benefit the group getting it. It does. In a number of ways that I listed in an earlier post.

Obviously not enough for JCVI

I don’t get why you are so interested in what we do here.

I’m happy to trust their decision. Who cares if you’re not?

And again the selfish part is totally off.

And I say that as someone who has chosen it for 16 year old.

I think (though obviously I can't speak for everyone) that some of us in Ireland are surprised that the UK has taken a different view of the vaccine for 12-15 year olds.

We watched in awe as the UK got off its backside and was well ahead of the world in vaccination. Six months ago, it looked as though Ireland would never catch up, that we'd still be arguing about whether to do it by age or occupation, or just randomly depending on whether or not you knew a doctor (there was little logic and a hell of a lot of string pulling to skip the queue at one stage).

I presumed the UK would continue to vaccinate everyone, but they've stopped at age 16. I can see the reasoning for both approaches, I'm just surprised and will be interested in whether it turns out to be a medical decision or a supply issue.

I realise the JCVI have said no to vaccinating younger teens; I'm wondering why and how they've come to different decisions from the equivalent EU and US bodies, for example.

It's a bit like the AZ decisions, they are made differently in different countries and I'm similarly interested in whether such decisions are medically driven or supply driven.

I expect Josephine Public will never know.

Ski season will be interesting when countries such as Italy are requiring all over 12s to be vaccinated to enter an indoor space such as a restaurant.

@EarringsandLipstick do you realise how aggressive you come across in your posts? It’s really unpleasant and quite unnecessary.

You are assuming that vaccine uptake will continue to be high in the 18-24 group. In other countries it has settled in a position that is lower than in older age groups. I’m not sure why you think Ireland will be different but I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.

Here is a link to a summary document from Hiqa irt the longer document I linked to earlier

^The updated evidence summary identified 19 large cohort studies involving over 640,000 previously infected individuals, including six studies with over ten months’ follow-up. Across studies, the risk of SARS-CoV-2 reinfection was consistently found to be low. No study reported an increase in reinfection risk over time. More limited data were identified in relation to the immune response to SARS-CoV-2 infection. The identified studies suggest that immune memory develops in most or all people that have been infected with SARS-CoV-2 and lasts for at least nine months.
 In light of these findings, consideration should be given to extending the period of presumptive immunity from six to nine months post-infection.^

www.hiqa.ie/sites/default/files/2021-06/Duration-of-protective-immunity_Advice-to-NPHET_25-May-2021_0.pdf

you have repeated entirely false information throughout this thread, ignoring evidence provided to you.

Such as?

@EarringsandLipstick Link to the ons site info on their antibody testing program:

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/antibodie

And you can test people who haven’t tested positive.

JCVI on this morning

I haven’t heard anything that indicates it’s not a decision based on benefit / risk for alone.

My kids achool does testing every 6 weeks

All kids were tested for covid and for covid antibodies

They have been since last September

So antibody testing has gone on for almost a year in selected schools now

Our school is doing the ons study

@Blessex

Ski season will be interesting when countries such as Italy are requiring all over 12s to be vaccinated to enter an indoor space such as a restaurant.

Yep-it’s things like this that might end up being the tipping point, to be honest. I would imagine that there will be pressure from people wanting this kind of holiday, to be given the choice of vaccinating their children, and once that starts, it will be opened wider.

NYC has a show proof of vaccination for over 12 if a business choose to use it.

I wonder what will happen if more do this in ROW

@Watapalava

My kids achool does testing every 6 weeks

All kids were tested for covid and for covid antibodies

They have been since last September

So antibody testing has gone on for almost a year in selected schools now

What has been the outcome of this study? It would be really interesting to know