Vaccine in 12-16 year olds?

[beckypv]

I’m trying to work understand the real reason why 12-16 aren’t currently being offered the vaccine. I know they have said that it is because they are still weighing up the personal risk benefit to the child. Is that actually true? or is it because they are not yet in a position logistically to role it out fully to this age group, or they are actually thinking globally in terms of diverting vaccine resources to the rest of the world?
I ask this because my 12 year old son falls into the general ‘vulnerable category’ because he is on multiple immunosuppressant drugs and will be offered the vaccine soon. We have been told over the last year that JIA kids are no more vulnerable to Covid than other kids, therefore I am concerned he has been put in the vulnerable catagory under a wide sweeping brush and that actually it is no more appropriate for him to have the covid vaccine than other children.
So basically, we want to make to correct decision for him so am trying to understand the science behind not vaccinating children versus the political message.
Hope that makes sense 😀

Earrings and lipstick, if you don't know of that happening anywhere you must have a very charmed comfortable life. Or do you choose to ignore.

@Peteycat

There absolutely is a risk to the child. Come on everyone knows that. The question is how big is the risk.

Let me make this clear. It is NOT selfish to not vaccinate a child. Children should not be used to protect adults.

It's the population as a whole. Including children, especially CEV ones, and it also benefits kids in terms of their ability to live a more normal life at school & socially

@Peteycat

Earrings and lipstick, if you don't know of that happening anywhere you must have a very charmed comfortable life. Or do you choose to ignore.

I've a generally good life, yes!

In Ireland, I can categorically say it's not happening. Just not.

Where's your evidence that it is happening, where you are?

So you think. I disagree.

Lots of carers I know being coerced. Yes you will say get a new job but that's not possible for most single mothers is it?

From September I think nightclubs etc, correct me if I'm wrong I have not checked this fact. You will need a vaccine passport to enter.

I've heard lots of people who have been kicked out of the family home due to not getting the vaccine. It's really quite sad when I write it down. Oh and couples splitting up after decades of marriage over different vaccine choices.

It's the population as a whole. Including children, especially CEV ones, and it also benefits kids in terms of their ability to live a more normal life at school & socially

It has to benefit the group being vaccinated. JCVI recognise this so the selfish part isn’t correct.

I'm glad to hear you have a good life. Long may that continue for you and your family. Unfortunately not everyone has that luxury.

how anyone can read the jvci statement from July and still moan about no routine vaccination for kids is beyond me

they explain the reasons fully and state - several times - that the risk of vaccines is more than covid for this age group

what other countries do is not really relevant - their adults vaccine uptake could be lower, differences in exposure etc

www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-vaccination-of-children-and-young-people-aged-12-to-17-years-jcvi-statement/jvci-statement-on-covid-19-vaccination-of-children-and-young-people-aged-12-to-17-years-15-july-2021

@EarringsandLipstick

Unvaccinated people being shunned, insulted, losing their jobs, being excluded from events etc.

What? Where has this happened? How would anyone know, bar for events, which makes sense.

Theres been 1001 threads on here insulting the unvaccinated, numerous threads asking aibu not to see my unvaccinated family/friend/colleagues. Care home staff have been told they need to be vaccinated by a certain date to keep their jobs

@EarringsandLipstick

so lower than the older groups,

Oh for goodness sake. 🙄 only lower as some are awaiting their second vaccine. Obviously. Not lower because of less uptake, as you implied. You also gave the impression that there were many 18 - 24 yo not getting vaccinated, again, untrue. The figures bear this out.

We’ll see. Uptake is lower in the younger age groups in other countries.

Again, me knowing ‘quite a few’ does necessarily translate to ‘many’ and ‘many’ is not the same as ‘most’ in any case. :)

@EarringsandLipstick

Plenty of studies have shown that immunity after infection lasts 9+ months. (A recent preprint actually found it lasted 12 months)

What's your point here? It means that even those who caught Covid will require vaccination, as they have immunity for a short period. So those who caught Covid in March 2020 for example, required vaccination.

You are not making much any sense

At least 9 months. I take it you didn’t bother to look at the HIQA document? A recent study showed immunity 12+ months after infection. As time goes on we have more information about how durable immunity is. Not sure why you find that hard to understand. My point was simply to correct you when you said that we didn’t know if immunity lasts for 9 months. We do.

there is no way to measure 'antibody levels'

Hmm, better tell the ONS that. They’ve been measuring them for months.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveyantibodyandvaccinationdatafortheuk/7july2021

How satisfying that I can fling this right back at you:

“Honestly I'm embarrassed for you, the way you keep spouting rubbish even when you're given the facts”.

@Peteycat

Why are you embarrassed for her? She's stating her point as she is allowed.

Don’t worry. She’s just embarrassed herself more by stating that there is ‘no way to measure antibodies’

I actually know of someone who has voluntarily worked with the big guys. They definitely are testing for antibodies.

You know, bumbley and petey are exactly the type of people I'm talking about when I say the rudeness and aggression are coming from the people who seem to think vaccination is unnecessary.

Whenever I feel all reasonable and "live and let live" about vaccination, I read threads like this and understand why there is such a divide.

I don't think I'd want to socialise with either of them in real life, because it seems (correct me if I'm wrong) that both believe that Covid isn't really such a bad virus, that vaccination is unnecessary, that life should just go back to normal and the rest of us are worrying about nothing.

As an aside, after my dog got a really bad dose of kennel cough a couple of years ago I won't look after a friend's dog who is unvaccinated. She wants me to look after him because she can't get him into a kennels.

Before I get jumped on by people saying children aren't dogs, I do know that . But people make informed decisions, and for me if she doesn't want to vaccinate her dog, that's fine, but she can't expect me to look after him.

Kennel cough vaccination isn't 100% guaranteed, but it does greatly reduce rates of infection, and reduces symptoms. Kennel cough isn't usually fatal, but can make dogs very sick.

Which all sounds rather familiar these days.

@TurquoiseBaubles

You know, bumbley and petey are exactly the type of people I'm talking about when I say the rudeness and aggression are coming from the people who seem to think vaccination is unnecessary.

Whenever I feel all reasonable and "live and let live" about vaccination, I read threads like this and understand why there is such a divide.

I don't think I'd want to socialise with either of them in real life, because it seems (correct me if I'm wrong) that both believe that Covid isn't really such a bad virus, that vaccination is unnecessary, that life should just go back to normal and the rest of us are worrying about nothing.

I have to say where I live(Ireland) the most aggression I have seen when it comes to vaccinating the 12-15 age group has been from those against it. Lots of posts about how dare parents poison their children with 'experimental' vaccines, SHAME on them!

My 14 year old is booked in for his but I couldn't care less if his classmates have been vaccinated or not. He will be, we are, none of us are particularly high risk or worried about covid. I understand that some parents don't want to vaccinate their children I certainly wouldn't be trying to shame them for it.

Exactly, I would never tell anyone that they should do anything for their children.

But equally I wouldn't tell anyone that they shouldn't.

because it seems (correct me if I'm wrong) that both believe that Covid isn't really such a bad virus, that vaccination is unnecessary, that life should just go back to normal and the rest of us are worrying about nothing.

Nope. Covid is a nasty virus that has killed lots of people (mainly older and vulnerable). The vaccine is very much necessary and has significantly reduced the risk of serious illness and death in the most vulnerable groups. Yes. life should go back to normal. We've vaccinated the most vulnerable groups (and most of the adults who want it even if they are low risk) so we need to learn to live with it now. People can be worried about whatever they like, it's not particularly useful though. If you've been vaccinated, you've reduced your own risk of serious illness. Be satisfied with that and stop worrying about whether or not other people made a different decision to you.

Nope. Covid is horrible. Don't wish it on anyone.

If you think I'm rude or aggressive you really should see some real rude and aggressive people.

Did no one ever tell you that just because someone disagrees with you, you should not label them with absurd things.

I am not saying I will never let my kids have the vaccine but I am definitely not rushing into it or being made to feel forced into letting them have it. Thankfully the uptake in adults taking the vaccine has been brilliant so think it should stay completely optional and not go down the route other countries have gone down by refusing entry to venues for those who have decided against it

@ollyollyoxenfree

Any "oh but what if this and that" in terms of long Covid or being unlucky etc disappeared for me (if it was ever there in the first place) when mine had it with virtually no symptoms

No fevers, chills, tiredness, cough, headache, nothing! That's it! They've had worse colds.Don't see the need for a vaccine that "might" cause heart inflammation "particularly on the second dose" etc which is presumably under emergency approval?

@TattyDevine it is excellent your children sailed through but surely you can appreciate that just because they were fine this doesn't mean vaccination should be offered to 12-15 year olds? We know that most kids will be fine, it's not surprising that yours were.

On a balance on risks, the rare odds of severe illness and the potential for long term effects has been considered greater than the rare odds of severe myocarditis. This is why it's being offered pretty much everywhere else in the Western world.

I didn't say they shouldn't be offered it based on my experience though. That's why I said "disappeared for me" not "disappeared for humankind".

It has to benefit the group being vaccinated.

It will.

In Ireland, and most other European countries, this is accepted. The UK is the outlier.

@Peteycat

I'm glad to hear you have a good life. Long may that continue for you and your family. Unfortunately not everyone has that luxury.

Oh stop! I've a good life but plenty of challenges too (single parent to 3, following abusive marriage, no help etc) This thread isn't about my life tho.

You've thrown out some anecdotes. No evidence (as is the case throughout). I can tell you, no-one in Ireland is losing their jobs because they are not vaccinated. In any case the unvaccinated represent a very small percentage of the adult population.

Frontline health care workers will not be allowed contact with patients if not vaccinated, but that's obvious. Ditto for carers, in your example. They are carers the clue is in the name. Of course they need to be vaccinated.

what other countries do is not really relevant - their adults vaccine uptake could be lower, differences in exposure etc

As I've said, untrue for Ireland.