Vaccine in 12-16 year olds?

[beckypv]

I’m trying to work understand the real reason why 12-16 aren’t currently being offered the vaccine. I know they have said that it is because they are still weighing up the personal risk benefit to the child. Is that actually true? or is it because they are not yet in a position logistically to role it out fully to this age group, or they are actually thinking globally in terms of diverting vaccine resources to the rest of the world?
I ask this because my 12 year old son falls into the general ‘vulnerable category’ because he is on multiple immunosuppressant drugs and will be offered the vaccine soon. We have been told over the last year that JIA kids are no more vulnerable to Covid than other kids, therefore I am concerned he has been put in the vulnerable catagory under a wide sweeping brush and that actually it is no more appropriate for him to have the covid vaccine than other children.
So basically, we want to make to correct decision for him so am trying to understand the science behind not vaccinating children versus the political message.
Hope that makes sense 😀

And I agree with earringsandlipstick when she says it is very much being presented as a choice here, there is no sign of anyone trying to make it mandatory or pressure parents into vaccinating their children. Obviously the government are recommending it but it is clear that the choice lies with the parent.

@TurquoiseBaubles

Really Mango? Are you in Dublin? Every young person I know has been vaccinated (mostly so they can get into pubs, to be fair )

I know quite a few young people in Dublin (and elsewhere in Ireland) who are refusing to be vaccinated. They’re still managing to find places to drink indoors though Thankfully there are a few places willing to stand up to discrimination.

@Budsaway

And I agree with earringsandlipstick when she says it is very much being presented as a choice here, there is no sign of anyone trying to make it mandatory or pressure parents into vaccinating their children. Obviously the government are recommending it but it is clear that the choice lies with the parent.

So far. Let’s see what happens when schools start back and parents don’t want their children hanging out with ‘the unvaccinated’.

I've heard that school vaccination teams have been told to prepare to give flu and covid vaccines together this Winter. So I would agree that this is down to supply right now and as soon as new supplies arrive in Sep it will all be agreed and full steam ahead.

Let’s see what happens when schools start back and parents don’t want their children hanging out with ‘the unvaccinated’.

I’ve got a feeling this is going to be horribly divisive among some parents. Outrage on both sides (among those easily outraged!)

If 12-16 year olds are given it, where does that leave children under 12? Are they sitting ducks when they go back to school and nearly the entire population are vaccinated except them?

@Window1

If 12-16 year olds are given it, where does that leave children under 12? Are they sitting ducks when they go back to school and nearly the entire population are vaccinated except them?

There is no approved vaccine for the under 12s

Just keep in mind they can just go to NI ago drink too passports there

Are they sitting ducks when they go back to school and nearly the entire population are vaccinated except them

Sitting ducks for what?

The rationale for vaccinating 12 yo + is that that takes account of all secondary school going kids, and limits the spread of Covid from the teenage population (Covid is widespread in the teenage population in Ireland at the moment). For many of this group, they'll socialise independently, have more close contact sports, and then there is the challenge of managing secondary schools, where students typically move around more than primary schools.

It's still the case that children are less affected by Covid that adults, and if we get to the point that everyone 12 years & older is vaccinated, we will have effectively protected the entire population.

To bumbley and mango you're spouting rubbish. By 29 July, just short of 50,000 16 & 17 yo has been vaccinated. For the entire population, 18+, the vaccination rate for 1 dose is at 91%, and both doses is at 82%. Since August 13, 47,000 vaccines have been given to 12+ age group.

The vast majority of all people, including young people, are getting the vaccine. It's true there are pockets of areas where it's lower; thankfully it's the minority.

The source for all the above is ECDC (European Centre for Disease Control). So reliable, and easily verifiable should you wish to check.

It's still the case that children are less affected by Covid that adults, and if we get to the point that everyone 12 years & older is vaccinated, we will have effectively protected the entire population.

This is the answer to my question about whether under 12's are sitting ducks. I know that a lot more younger people are in hospital now and that the new variant is a concern to young people. I didn't realise that children are still less affected by COVID.

I think it's best to wait.

I dont see why a 12 year old needs it,

@Mango1982

Just keep in mind they can just go to NI ago drink too passports there

Yep. Good for NI hospitality I guess.

@EarringsandLipstick nope, not rubbish, just my own experience. I know young people who are getting it but I know plenty who aren’t. Btw if you down the 91% entire population and you’ll find that the uptake in younger groups is lower than the older ones.

Break down*

Well they can't really go to NI to drink if they live in Cork!

I wouldn't be at all surprised if there is a "them and us" attitude when the children go back to school. My experience (anecdotal obviously) is that parents who are anti-vaccination are also those who genuinely think that Covid has been exaggerated and isn't much of a risk. They are the families who have been mixing throughout, and they are also the families who are less likely to stick to guidelines about social distancing and mask-wearing, for example.

I can see families with a vulnerable child being pretty pissed off at the few vocal vaccine-refusers. I can understand vulnerable university lecturers not wanting non-vaccinated students at close quarters in tutorials and practicals.

I can understand that people who have taken the vaccination "risk" for themselves and their children will be pretty annoyed at those who are taking advantage of everyone else's risk (by being in a society where the majority are vaccinated) but aren't willing to take it themselves.

I expect the winter will be fractious.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if there is a "them and us" attitude when the children go back to school.

Well you seem to be guilty of it yourself already judging by the rest of your post. Nice.

Most will get vaccinated though. It's a small, very vocal minority who don't like science and research.

Right… because a parent who has been following all the information for the last year that shows that children are low risk and that previously infected people have durable immunity clearly doesn’t like ‘science and research’

[quote bumbleymummy]@EarringsandLipstick nope, not rubbish, just my own experience. I know young people who are getting it but I know plenty who aren’t. Btw if you down the 91% entire population and you’ll find that the uptake in younger groups is lower than the older ones.[/quote]
Wrong - again.

I broke down the stats for you. Do read them ... and check ECDC if unsure.

The level of vaccination in the 18 - 24 population is at 80% (just under) and that was based on figures a week ago. So probably higher now.

That does still leave

@bumbleymummy

Right… because a parent who has been following all the information for the last year that shows that children are low risk and that previously infected people have durable immunity clearly doesn’t like ‘science and research’

Children are at low risk themselves but people who catch it from them are not necessarily so.

Immunity is estimated at maximum 9 months post Covid, and is not yet fully know.

I read recently a worrying article, putting it very simply it stated that because you can catch covid after having been vaccinated, we need 90% ish of a population to be jabbed rather than the originally calculated 70%, otherwise vaccine beating variants will just keep on coming. This means secondary and also primary age kids will need to be vaccinated.

I can’t understand the UKs position at all, but being the odd one out isn’t a nice feeling!

here is the article but you’ll need a translator.

@bumbleymummy

I wouldn't be at all surprised if there is a "them and us" attitude when the children go back to school.

Well you seem to be guilty of it yourself already judging by the rest of your post. Nice.

Back atcha

I've found that the few people I know who are totally anti-vaccination are becoming very aggressive in their views and extremely judgmental of others' opinions.

@EarringsandLipstick No, clearly not ‘wrong again’ . You gave the percentage vaccinated for the entire population and the raw figures for under 18s. You just broke it down and found that ~80% of 18-24 are vaccinated, so lower than the older groups, just as I stated. :)

However, the assertion that many are unvaccinated is factually untrue.

I didn’t make this assertion. “Many” is not the same as “most’ though so it is perfectly accurate to say that ‘many’ people haven’t been vaccinated.

Irt vulnerable people catching it from children - The most at risk groups were prioritised for vaccination.

Plenty of studies have shown that immunity after infection lasts 9+ months. (A recent preprint actually found it lasted 12 months)

Based on this, HIQA advised NPHET to extend presumptive immunity to 9 months from 6.

www.hiqa.ie/sites/default/files/2021-06/Duration-of%20protective-immunity-evidence-summary_22-June-2021.pdf

@PersephoneJames It is no longer thought to be possible to achieve herd immunity with the delta variant.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.politico.eu/article/herd-immunity-not-a-possibility-with-delta-variant/amp/

@TurquoiseBaubles

I've found that the few people I know who are totally anti-vaccination are becoming very aggressive in their views and extremely judgmental of others' opinions.

Maybe they’re just defensive because they’re being labelled ‘anti-vaccination’ based on their decision not to vaccinate their child against this one virus that they may have already had?

[quote Mango1982]@TattyDevine please watch twitter.com/talkRADIO/status/1427168031730507777?s=20

He seems very unsure about his own choice very worrying[/quote]
Thanks Mango, yes the JCVI have been very hesitant from the start and don't seem to see the benefits outweighing the risks for most kids.

Any "oh but what if this and that" in terms of long Covid or being unlucky etc disappeared for me (if it was ever there in the first place) when mine had it with virtually no symptoms -tested because their bubble burst.

One had a slightly stuffy nose for a day, the other thought she didn't like the taste of balsamic vinegar anymore but does again now.

No fevers, chills, tiredness, cough, headache, nothing!

That's it! They've had worse colds.

Don't see the need for a vaccine that "might" cause heart inflammation "particularly on the second dose" etc which is presumably under emergency approval?

Okay in a few years if they are heading off to uni and there's 3 or 4 years more data and by then probably a different, fine tuned vaccine, it might be a good time to consider it as their immunity will have waned, the virus will have mutated, and if it's still as bad as say flu, it might stop them getting their course off to a bad start with a stint of illness perhaps. Finally then there will be a benefit to them. Sorry but I don't do the whole "risk your child for the benefit of wider society thing" or "because some places in Europe's percentages will look higher than ours" thing for that matter.

I've had both AZ myself and was signed onto the Novavax trial back in December 2020 and both children have had all other jabs including HPV so by definition cannot be remotely considered an anti vaxxer by the way 👍🏻