Will this level of cases now just be acceptable?

[Tuba437]

Just having a think to myself. We're now at around 30k cases a day in general. The 7 day average daily deaths is about 89 (this was for around 45-50k cases a day). We can assume that I a month or so deaths will be at around 60 a day.

Over a year that works out at about 21k worth of deaths. Will this just be the acceptable number. We know the vaccine doesn't stop the spread so I highly doubt were ever just going to get down to sub 5k cases a day again.

21k is considered a very mild flu death rate for the year. We have a new virus around now so more deaths a year are going to be a thing whether we like it or not.

I also think red list countries should only be for countries with worrying variants. If I don't have to isolate if my wife tests positive (just daily testing) then why on earth would I have to spend 1500 on a government hotel to quarantine as I've been to a country with a lower covid rate than us?

Sorry about the rant.

@changingstages

Thought the ONS data released today about mask wearing was very interesting - that 9 in 10 people are still wearing face coverings at least some of the time. 89% said they'd work a mask while outside the home in the last week. 91% said wearing one while shopping was important. 87%, interestingly, said that social distancing from people not in their own home was also important.

Really highlights that the non-mask wearers (and I do not include those exempt for genuine reasons in this) are just a noisy minority.

Disagree with this actually.

People are still wearing them but only in places where there is social pressure to do so.

If theres no strong message to do so, the same people who are continuing to wear them in certain places arent wearing them elsewhere - because other people in the same building aren't.

For example they wear them in the supermarket but they then go down the street to the covered shopping centre and they dont.

Theres a definite 'crowd' effect. Places where the norm remains to do so, theres mask wearing but places where its more relaxed people aren't and thats encouraging others not to too.

Amd certainly people are spending more time unmasked in other people's homes rather than socialising outdoors already - before the weather is even starting to set in for Autumn.

A poll will only reveal so much. People saying they still wear them doesn't reveal how frequently they are wearing them. Only that they haven't completely abandoned them.

The difference is a crucial one and we should make sure we note it.

Sorry that was to @changingstages

I largely agree@RedToothBrush but I think we are even so in a better place than most people, including Johnson & Javid, previously expected before "Freedom Day".

It's good also that some CEV 12-15 children are finally being vaccinated now, and it might well be that the offer of vaccination will be extended to other CEV/CV children 12-15 first off.

Re mask wearing, I certainly don't wear them all the time I'm out either.

If the situation is a bit borderline though, and another person is masked, I might well put one on as well. Not really a "crowd" effect but out of politeness & to hope I'd make the other person feel more comfortable.

"the third reason is if someone else was uncomfortable if I did not wear a mask – as a point of common courtesy.”

It is a good point though, that people socially tend to copy others' behaviour, this being part of the social animals that we are.

@herecomesthsun so it’s judgemental to point out when other people are being judgemental? 🤷🏼‍♀️ How do we call it out then?

FWIW. I have no problem with people wearing masks if they choose too. I think it’s a nice thing if it makes people feel comfortable and safe.

I have a MASSIVE problem with some people forcing other people to cover their faces against their will. And with people who judge and belittle others for not covering their faces.
I had a problem with this before the pandemic and continue to have a problem with this today.

I also have a big problem with people forcing children to cover their faces in school. No way would I ever put a mask on the face of my small child.

[quote Bizawit]@herecomesthsun so it’s judgemental to point out when other people are being judgemental? 🤷🏼‍♀️ How do we call it out then?[/quote]
lol

You get your finger pointers and curtain twitches. I'm just glad I'm not like that.

No one is twitching curtains or pointing fingers here.

Except the person who is congratulating themselves that they are "not like that" compared with other posters.

hope that helps

FWIW no one is forcing or can forcing anyone else to wear a mask.

That doesn't stop it being a good idea in some circumstances.

This is as a general principle not a specific prescription.

I might keep a bit more distance from someone not wearing a mask in the supermarket, but for all I know they might have PTSD or something, I wouldn't judge them.

can force, sorry

@herecomesthsun

FWIW no one is forcing or can forcing anyone else to wear a mask.

That doesn't stop it being a good idea in some circumstances.

This is as a general principle not a specific prescription.

I might keep a bit more distance from someone not wearing a mask in the supermarket, but for all I know they might have PTSD or something, I wouldn't judge them.

lol where have you been this entire pandemic? It was literally the law.

No one is twitching curtains or pointing fingers here

What are you on about? The poster was calling out another poster who was pointing fingers at people for not wearing masks (even though it is no longer required) and saying it was probably cos they are fat!!

Re mask wearing, it is literally not the law now (and never was for people with an exemption).

Why we can't just do what we can to make things as safe for everyone, and give other people the benefit of the doubt for good intentions?

hi @herecomesthsun - it's here:
www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthandwellbeing/datasets/coronavirusandthesocialimpactsongreatbritaindata

Table 3 has mask wearing data.

Interesting to see the much lower figures for public transport on there, actually. Bit worrying, but as far as anecdata goes, I feel like I see more people wearing masks on public transport than I do shopping, but perhaps that's because of the area I'm in.

@QueenofKattegat

Really highlights that the non-mask wearers (and I do not include those exempt for genuine reasons in this) are just a noisy minority

No it doesn't. It highlights that a small amount of people are asked a question and they know the "right" answer to give so they give it.

but what do a cross-section of society selected for an ONS survey have to lose or gain by telling the truth for this? FWIW while mask wearing was very high for shopping, it was much lower for other activities (which I hadn't noticed when I looked initially), which suggests that this hypothesis isn't right.

It does also suggest that the noisy minority are a bit larger than I thought but not when shopping, it would seem. Why do we think people still really go for masks when shopping but not so much on public transport?

It literally is the law to wear masks in some parts of the UK, still. No longer for young children though (it was 5+).

I have still noticed quite a drop-off in mask wearing in recent weeks though so I’m surprised by that 89% figure. Although I suppose it’s 89% of people who say they’ve worn a mask anywhere in that week, so maybe a lot of people are wearing them maybe a couple of times while at the GP surgery or school dropoff, but not in the shops or on the bus or at the gym, or vice versa.

ONS study is designed to overestimate positive responses.

People generally go to several shops and they are meant to answer "yes" if they wear a mask in one of them.

@GoldenOmber

It literally is the law to wear masks in some parts of the UK, still. No longer for young children though (it was 5+).

I have still noticed quite a drop-off in mask wearing in recent weeks though so I’m surprised by that 89% figure. Although I suppose it’s 89% of people who say they’ve worn a mask anywhere in that week, so maybe a lot of people are wearing them maybe a couple of times while at the GP surgery or school dropoff, but not in the shops or on the bus or at the gym, or vice versa.

not an expert on this, but I think that there were & are exemptions across the UK, and that HCPs would likely have been generous in helping with these

hiddendisabilitiesstore.com/invisible-disabilities-face-covering.html

I was pleasantly surprised when we went on holiday this week to a different area, to see just how many masks were being worn.

Oh yes, there are exceptions in all parts of the UK. I just meant that unlike England, there are parts of the UK where it’s still the law to wear a mask in various indoor places - it is where I live. But even we’re seeing mask-wearing rates decline so 🤷‍♀️

@herecomesthsun

Re mask wearing, it is literally not the law now (and never was for people with an exemption).

Why we can't just do what we can to make things as safe for everyone, and give other people the benefit of the doubt for good intentions?

Yes- For people who had a medical exemption.

Anxiety associated with wearing a mask would be a potential exemption.

I would hope that a kind line was taken. I'm really glad that it should have been easy for people to avoid mask wearing who found it difficult.

www.mind.org.uk/information-support/coronavirus/mask-anxiety-face-coverings-and-mental-health/

How do I prove I am exempt from wearing a mask?

You do not need to prove that you are exempt from wearing a mask.

There is no legal document or proof that you need to carry on you.

If you are challenged about not wearing a mask, you could:

Tell the person why, if you feel able to. Try saying "I am exempt for health reasons", or "I have a good reason that you can't see. Please be kind".

Write down your reason and show it to people. This could be written on a piece of paper, or displayed digitally on your phone.

Consider printing or downloading an exemption card. These are not required at all, but might make you feel more at ease when explaining to others.

And, of course, Scotland's latest case trend shows that out of all restrictions a mask mandate might be the least impactful intervention.

Scottish cases spiked up rapidly post August 9th reopening regardless of mask requirements. The increase is happening across all the age groups so it is not driven by pre-school testing.

MarshaBradyo

Time for us to stop commenting on other people’s decisions”

Unfortunately though your decision impacts on me. My husband is CEV. We’re all double jabbed now but that won’t necessarily prevent him from becoming very unwell if he contracts covid.

If you decide not to keep your distance from me in the queue when I shop, I will comment because it won’t harm you to stand back but not doing so could potentially harm my husband.

Yes op I think you are right. We just have to live with it. It’s a new disease on the block and it’s here to stay. Just like all the others, including flu.

But yes, let’s hope Covid and flu deaths combined are not any worse overall

let’s hope Covid and flu deaths combined are not any worse overall

They are going to be worse combined.

Iannistunut no one knows that yet. Flu is still unpredictable, and there will be another massive vaccination campaign.
As for covid, we're really in uncharted territory, but logically cases should start to decline, as immunity in the community builds.

[quote TheReluctantPhoenix]@Ontopofthesunset,

There were an estimated 53,000 attendees at the Boardmasters’ festival, so unless they virtually all got COVID, it is unlikely to account for a national spike.[/quote]
True, it won't be a dominant effect, but it's more that each of the 53,000 will have had many contacts in the days since the festival, widening the impact significantly.