How can it possibly be a good idea to NOT isolate if a household member tests positive?

[DontDrinkDontSmokeWhatDoIDo]

As the new rules will allow?

I think it's absolute madness.

We've all had positives over the last three weeks and even though we are all double jabbed, the illness is really, really nasty.

We all tested positive about 5
Days apart, like bloody dominos.

I just can't believe what destruction we would have unleashed had we not had to isolate.

A lot of posters are talking again about people being selfish and how you should "use common sense".
That can work 2 ways

1. "Im in a house where someone is unwell with a very contagious disease that has varying degrees of severity and can be fatal, it's common sense none of us go out for fear of spreading it" (This works better if you can wfh, have well stocked food cupboard, can shop online etc)

2. "I'm in a household with someone unwell with a contagious disease that I could potentially spread when I go out. But I'm not currently unwell and will lose 10 days work/pay if I stay in and isolate, the common sense thing for me would be to continue to work unless I feel unwell or test positive on a LFT." (This will be the reality for a lot of people who cant wfh)

I do agree with cornettoninja though that there is a halfway

“There is a safer compromise by getting rid of contact isolations for the vaccinated and

We had 2 household members who were positive. DH and I had both had only one vaccine at that point but didn't catch it. Even though we had to share bathroom and toilet. We didn't socialise and took food up, and were scrupulous about handwashing/disinfecting etc.

So we know that even with close co tact you don't always catch it. If that happened after 16th (we've both been double jabbed now) I'd still be as cautious and wouldn't mix with people. I'd go out for a walk or drive and would nip into the local shop for eg milk as wouldn't be in direct contact people for long enough to pass anything on, and I still wear a mask in shops regardless of the rules.

@cantkeepawayforever

I entirely expect isolation for the infected to end in mid to late September as well. Infections in children will rise rapidly once schools go back, and in the same way that high infection rates post Euros had the undesirable side effect of many app ‘pings’, this will lead to parents having to miss work to look after infected children, and infected school staff will be absent for 10 days at a time.

It will very rapidly change to no isolation but advice to stay at hone if really too ill to go out.

This will only be reversed if the NHS is overwhelmed or deaths in the young become publicly unacceptable.

This is what I think too.

Many children won’t know they’re positive in Sept as won’t show symptoms

If they do it will be one ten day isolation then over. Which is easier for working parents to manage than before with repeated isolations

Hoping the BBC article is correct it’s not the first time they put that on. Thinking about the current guidelines the government have differentiated between “household contacts” and “close contacts” hence the two names. Wouldn’t surprise me if household contacts will continue to isolate and close contacts won’t. Only time will tell and anyway no doubt in a few weeks all will change again.

@Ohchristmastreeohchristmastree

It was an article about the new changes.

You are incorrect those are current rules - it can't be about the changes because if it was then nothing would have changed.

Link to BBC article www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-54239922

Surely the Government need to clarify this before tomorrow

The BBC article does seem to suggest that households still have to,isolate but that isn't what the Government has been saying beforehand.

I'm really hoping fully vaccinated household members don't still need to isolate.

Just found the government updated guidance www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-stay-at-home-guidance/stay-at-home-guidance-for-households-with-possible-coronavirus-covid-19-infection#exempt

BBC are clearly wrong (unfortunately I think!)

This is the government's Press Release: www.gov.uk/government/news/self-isolation-removed-for-double-jabbed-close-contacts-from-16-august

@Fizbosshoes would you visit elderly relatives if someone else in your household had norovirus/flu?

The option of not going into work because someone else in the family was ill wasn’t really available before (unless you were caring for them). But for those people who can WFH it is now more easily available. Which could help reduce the spread both in the workplace and community. Obviously there are still many people who can’t WFH, but community spread could be reduced by those who can.

Government press release
From tomorrow

* From Monday 16 August, people who are double jabbed or aged under 18 will no longer be legally required to self-isolate if they are identified as a close contact of a positive COVID-19 case*

Hooray!!

Not that I would have done before tomorrow anyway!

If households need to continue isolating for the foreseeable people will stop testing. Anyone losing taste or smell and otherwise ok will just keep quiet and carry on, a temp will be managed by paracetamol and those coughing will stay at home and tell the outside world they have a sickness bug instead. It's not viable for households to keep isolating indefinitely for loads of reasons.

Were household contacts contacted by Test and Trace? Wasn’t it just assumed that you isolated per the guidance and then other close contacts would be contacted.

Is this where the confusion has arisen as household contacts were treated differently but the Government haven’t mentioned them this time

@Fizbosshoeswould you visit elderly relatives if someone else in your household had norovirus/flu?

No. And I would not host visitors either. My parents unexpectedly turned up one weekend when both DC had been vomiting and I didnt not let them in and explained DC were unwell.

I'm just making the point that it's easy for lots to say "of course you should isolate" if it has no financial impact on their situation. If you look at the picture graph on the bbc link there are 29 days between 2 parents, where (if they cant wfh) they would be unable to work. if child 2 became ill not long after they would have to repeat the process again which would mean 49 days of potentially not being able to work.

Were household contacts contacted by Test and Trace?

We were

[quote DontDrinkDontSmokeWhatDoIDo]@Warhertisuff

Define rare?

I'm of course very glad to not be in hospital, but I know more that a handful of vaccinated
People Who've been quite ill for more than a couple of weeks.[/quote]
And I know the opposite.

1. one person, double vaxxed, covid for a second time. Asymptotic, only caught it from an LFT for work.

2. one person, covid twice, not yet vaxxed (another country), mild both times.

3. 2 people, double vaxxed, Covid for the first time. Incredibly mild symptoms

This doesn't mean that there aren't people in similar situations as above that haven't been 'floored', but you simply saying that that's been your experience doesn't make it true for the majority.

Also, no one is obliged to believe what I've said is true simply because I've written it on here, and it goes both ways.

[quote Fizbosshoes]**@Fizbosshoeswould you visit elderly relatives if someone else in your household had norovirus/flu?

No. And I would not host visitors either. My parents unexpectedly turned up one weekend when both DC had been vomiting and I didnt not let them in and explained DC were unwell.

I'm just making the point that it's easy for lots to say "of course you should isolate" if it has no financial impact on their situation. If you look at the picture graph on the bbc link there are 29 days between 2 parents, where (if they cant wfh) they would be unable to work. if child 2 became ill not long after they would have to repeat the process again which would mean 49 days of potentially not being able to work.[/quote]
And you're quite right. Something cannot be a common sense approach if it is going to leave the person expected to take it with no way to pay their bills. Delusional to think otherwise.

I personally would stay out of the way if someone in my house tested positive, but then I wouldn't be losing income from it so it's a completely different ball game.

@ineedaholidaynow

Were household contacts contacted by Test and Trace? Wasn’t it just assumed that you isolated per the guidance and then other close contacts would be contacted.

Is this where the confusion has arisen as household contacts were treated differently but the Government haven’t mentioned them this time

They were contacted. I was asked for all close contacts inc household members.

Business will need to step up and issue a covid policy for employees

A lot of businesses over here have closed due to lack of staff with covid - close contacts and family members can attend work - however it is up to businesses to agree a strategy going forward

Where I work and DD works in customer facing rolls it’s a 7 day lateral flow test if they’ve been in contact with a positive case otherwise twice weekly.

DH works won’t allow them in if there’s a positive case at home.

Other 2 must do twice weekly LFT to attend college.

That said, the numbers haven’t ballooned as previously suggested, but we have to wait until September to see what that brings.

"Household contacts who are not required to self-isolate from 16 August
From 16 August, you will not be required to self-isolate if you live in the same household as someone with COVID-19 and any of the following apply:
you are fully vaccinated
you are below the age of 18 years 6 months
you have taken part in or are currently part of an approved COVID-19 vaccine trial
you are not able to get vaccinated for medical reasons"

In black and white from the link given above by Daisydoor12

www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-stay-at-home-guidance/stay-at-home-guidance-for-households-with-possible-coronavirus-covid-19-infection#exempt

Illness affects our family behaviour depending on who has it anyway. If the DCs or I are ill, that naturally curtails "extra" activities. If I have a gastric type illness, I swerve the kitchen as that's a high risk for spreading through food and kitchen tasks are delegated.

The proximity, space and ventilation of homes make them amongst the highest risk spreading environment. For some members of a household, the risk of exposure and spread may be better managed by continuing to work in a low risk environment rather than being forced into sharing time and space with a known case. It's not necessarily a disaster of a policy change for spread risk.

There seems to be a sense of inevitability that everyone will catch it here, that is just not the case in so many other countries. The hospitalisations for all age bands under 25 are the same now as they were in the January peak. Whilst other countries have been addressing ventilation etc, we have done nothing but shrug. It's like we expect vaccination to be our only weapon, whereas at this stage, we need more than that. If our plan was to infect as many people as possible, what would we do differently to what we are doing now?