Why is not having the vaccine selfish

[chorizoTapas]

If not getting the vaccine only means you're putting yourself at risk why is it considered selfish and why are some people choosing to not be around their own family members who are unvaccinated? As most people have now had the vaccine hopefully the hospitals won't become overwhelmed... even with the few people that won't have the jab.

I am double jabbed but my brother is refusing to have his. Is he selfish? And if so why?

@Tealightsandd

presumptive

Presumed. As in guess. Gamble.

It's a novel virus. Potentially human modified. Presuming and guessing isn't enough when it comes to lives and health (and wealth is health).

We don't know how long immunity lasts, and particularly we don't know if immunity to one strain gives immunity to another.

yup, presumptive immunity of which the public health body have stated should be bolstered by vaccination.

ugh.

What is your agenda exactly @bumbleymummy? Why so insistent that anyone with previous infection doesn't need to be vaccinated, despite all evidence to the contrary and experts stating this is not the case? What do you know that they don't?

@leafyygreens actually, all I am using it for is to show that infection does provide lasting immunity. The fact that the ‘green pass/certificate’ also includes proof of recent infection means that they accept that people don’t need to be vaccinated to be considered immune.

@bumbleymummy

Not really. Young people were always low risk - although some may have underlying conditions or be higher risk due to obesity etc.

Some with underlying conditions is actually millions.

You're wrong too. It's not just about death. There's also the very real risk of Long Covid.

And, what makes you so confident that a new strain won't target younger people more?

How do you define risk btw. Financial? Older people fund the young.

And unless the young person is a sociopath, there's the mental health risk...of bereavement.

Oh and whilst a minority, CEV children do matter. As much as anyone else.

What do you stand to gain by insisting that people immune after infection still need to be vaccinated even though other countries accept recovery after infection as proof of immunity?

[quote bumbleymummy]@leafyygreens actually, all I am using it for is to show that infection does provide lasting immunity. The fact that the ‘green pass/certificate’ also includes proof of recent infection means that they accept that people don’t need to be vaccinated to be considered immune.[/quote]
Are you a fortune teller?

How can you know whether or not infection provides lasting immunity? Particularly from new strains.

“Some with underlying conditions is actually millions.”

I was referring to the young people ending up in hospital.

@bumbleymummy

What do you stand to gain by insisting that people immune after infection still need to be vaccinated even though other countries accept recovery after infection as proof of immunity?

Well if you want to be like other countries, you can't pick and choose. So strict border restrictions, mandatory masks (including schools), curfews and written permission to be out if and when lockdown...

Please refer to above Hiqa document, which is what we’re discussing irt studies showing duration of immunity @Tealightsandd

And a recent study found that long covid is uncommon in children so hopefully that reassures you a bit.

www.kcl.ac.uk/news/long-covid-uncommon-in-children

Children have parents (and other family). I suspect that it would be best for children's mental health if their parents didn't get struck down with Long Covid.

Why is not having the vaccine selfish?

Leslie Lawrenson 58 grom Bournemouth anti vaccine died age 58 of covid leaving 3 children. His wife seriously ill but recovering said that they put their children at risk. Younger child is only 11 a d now has no father.

Yes some sad cases. The poor children.

Another one here.

news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-family-of-anti-vaxxer-nightclub-boss-who-died-from-coronavirus-urges-people-to-get-the-jab-12374165

And this man. Only 42. No underlying conditions.

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-fit-and-healthy-man-42-killed-by-coronavirus-regretted-refusing-vaccine-as-sister-issues-misinformation-warning-12373389

Should we post up the stories about the double jabbed people who died too? Or are their stories not sad?

[quote bumbleymummy]@leafyygreens actually, all I am using it for is to show that infection does provide lasting immunity. The fact that the ‘green pass/certificate’ also includes proof of recent infection means that they accept that people don’t need to be vaccinated to be considered immune.[/quote]
Proof of recent infection, your words, not the infection months/years ago.

@illuyankas
Where did your other post go?

The stories of people who could have had a vaccine but listened to the anti vax stories and decided not to are coming through. Their bereaved families wish they had had the vaccine, it's sad and more stories like this will follow now society has opened up again. People should be prosecuted for sharing misinformation that leads to death of others.

@TheTallOakTrees

The stories of people who could have had a vaccine but listened to the anti vax stories and decided not to are coming through. Their bereaved families wish they had had the vaccine, it's sad and more stories like this will follow now society has opened up again. People should be prosecuted for sharing misinformation that leads to death of others.

Well that's the thing isn't it

People think they're being clever and have worked out things that are beyond the grasp of epidemiologists and vaccinologists with decades of experience.

But in reality all you're doing with these hours and hours of posts is negatively impacting people in a public health emergency. It's very depressing.

@illuyankas ‘recent infection’ is within the last 6 months - see above link.

Nice namechange there @bumbleymummy ;)

@leafyygreens

Leave to the vaccine experts the epidemiologists, the scientists who developed the vaccine. They have spent their lives working in their field. You tube and Bob down the pub with their version of 'research' misinforms people.

Wasn’t me! What did I miss?

@SoOvethis What other post?
Do you mean my other comments on this thread? It's still there, I just checked.

@illuyankas
Sorry wrong poster! I got you confused with someone else.

@bumbleymummy

Should we post up the stories about the double jabbed people who died too? Or are their stories not sad?

Dr Stephen Wright, 32, died after receiving the AZ vaccine. Left behind his wife and two children, a seven year old and a baby. Absolutely heartbreaking. I look at that little boy and think of mine at just seven years old.