A young man I know has just died

[Sunshinesandice]

Young (20s) fit healthy , struggled in hospital with Covid . Passed away a few days ago.

Life is so cruel. I also see that a fifth of hospital admissions are now younger patients .

Will this get worse ?

So sorry for your loss OP

Currently of the people seriously ill enough to need hospital in the UK, a 5th are under 40.

We can't underestimate SARS-Cov-2 and its various mutations - given that it's likely a gain of function research (i.e. potential bioweapon) leak from the Wuhan Institute of Virology. Therefore not a natural disease where we can predict with confidence how it will affect us and who (including long-term).

But what none of these pro vax/pro government posters ever say is that many of those who are ill with Covid have actually been vaccinated

Difference between mild infection and serious illness requiring hospitalisation. Data from other countries including the USA, Israel, and Norway, indicate that Covid is becoming a pandemic of the unvaccinated. Pfizer and Moderna seem to work well at preventing hospitalisation and death. As for our UK data, whilst AZ might not be quite as effective, it's still cutting risk of serious illness and death by at least half.

Vaccine efficacy might fade after a certain period of time (it's not completely clear yet) but no matter since we have boosters.

(For those suggesting we donate boosters abroad, it's important to put your own oxygen mask on before helping others, plus donated doses are a drop in the ocean. Temporary patent waiver, like Biden and Macron say, is the way to get the rest of the world vaccinated).

As for potential vaccine side effects versus Covid and Long Covid issues. We need to look at the actual data rather than personal anecdotes on Mumsnet or any other social media.

Eg. Myocarditis. Data shows that a very small number of almost all mild cases have occurred after Pfizer. Many more often much more serious cases have happened from Covid itself.

Then we get to fertility concerns I've seen some vaccine hesitant express. Step forward Boris Johnson. He has been vaccinated. He's also very clearly highly fertile. (Congratulations to him and Carrie btw).

Currently of the people seriously ill enough to need hospital in the UK, a 5th are under 40.

Yes, they make up a higher percentage because there are fewer older people being admitted. The actual numbers of young people in hospital have not significantly increased. Certainly not in our local hospitals anyway.

“Top officials at the World Health Organization say there's not enough evidence to show that third doses of coronavirus vaccines are needed and appealed Monday for the scarce shots to be shared with poor countries who have yet to immunize their people instead of being used by rich countries as boosters.”

“ We are making conscious choices right now not to protect those in need,” Tedros said, adding the immediate priority must be to vaccinate people who have yet to receive a single dose.”

“At this point...there is no scientific evidence to suggest that boosters are definitely needed,” said Dr. Soumya Swaminathan, WHO’s chief scientist. Swaminathan said WHO would make recommendations on booster doses if they were needed, but that any such advice “has to be based on the science and data, not on individual companies declaring that the vaccines should now be administered as a booster dose."

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/who-rich-countries-should-donate-vaccines-not-use-boosters-world-health-organization-tedros-adhanom-ghebreyesus-pfizer-who-london-b1882766.html%3famp

The WHO is understandably desperate to get the rest of the world vaccinated.

But it's true about-face needing to put your own oxygen mask on first (particularly bearing in mind that it's the UK poor hardest hit by Covid - and who therefore have most to lose by not getting a booster).

We also can't ignore that AZ, whilst good and worth having, is not as effective as Pfizer and Moderna. Az people in the UK should ideally have a mRNA booster.

Donated doses are a drop in the ocean. Nowhere close to enough to vaccinating the vulnerable in other countries.

Biden and Macron are right. The way to get the rest of the world vaccinated is temporary patent waiver.

And in fact, booster jabs in the UK do benefit the rest of the world.

Countries like the UK, with almost no mitigation measures and wide open borders, are extremely high risk for the creation of a more dangerous and/or vaccine resistant variants. Which is a thread to the whole world.

Therefore it is in the world's interest that the UK has excellent vaccine coverage. Including boosters.

It's perhaps not surprising that fully vaccinated Boris Johnson is to become a father again.

I can see why the unvaccinated might struggle with fertility. Covid infection has been linked to ED in young men.

@FreshFreesias

And before you go into meltdown over my comment, my closest friend died from cancer last month. It was perfectly treatable but the National Covid Service had very little interest in treating anything but Covid.

It's awful that your closest friend died of cancer. However, hospitals do not turn away people with perfectly treatable cancer. Treatments were delayed over the last 18 months and have been delayed due to covid overrunning some hospitals - do you suggest they ignore the people with covid who are in hospital? If covid was ignored and you allow it to spread without mitigations that occurred over the last 18 months then that would not change the outcome for your friend since even more people would have been in hospital.

My father has terminal cancer so I know that in our local trust they have treated people throughout. However in an overrun hospital they cannot do everything and suggesting that doctors and nurses are only interested in covid is I'm sure you know completely incorrect.

Sorry for your loss.

Do young people who have had one vaccine only so far count in the figures for 'unvaccinated'?

There doesn't seem to be a partially vaccinated bracket so I presume so.

How much protection does one vaccine give?

How much protection does one vaccine give?

Not enough.

If covid was ignored and you allow it to spread without mitigations that occurred over the last 18 months then that would not change the outcome for your friend since even more people would have been in hospital.

Yes. Not least because more staff - doctors, nurses, and other HCP - would be off sick or dead.

Also cancer patients are vulnerable to Covid. At one point 1 in 5 Covid infections in the UK were caught in hospital. It's impossible to provide safe non Covid care with Covid rampaging unchecked through hospital and wider society.

In fact the impact on hospital bed and staffing capacity is one reason why organisations like the CDC are so frustrated with the unvaccinated. In America, hospitals are filling up with the unvaccinated. Taking away care from other patients including cancer.

Literally millions of of patients suffering from cancer and other illnesses are not getting the treatment they need because of this obsession with an illness that is barely killing anyone.

Whilst some treatments in some hospitals may be being delayed it isn't universal.

Sadly we've been hit by knowing a number of people diagnosed with cancer during Covid.

Fill sadly died at the start. His was terminal and Covid had no bearing on his treatment right til the end.
Three women I know have been diagnosed with and treated for breast cancer, covering three different hospitals during this time. All were treated quickly and efficiently. Two are now recovering and one is having her operation next week.

I also know if other people having treatment for a range of illnesses and conditions, including myself. Several have needed hospital treatment and admission. Two have needed operations recently. All have been seen within time lines with no delays.

Not all other treatment has been stopped and delayed.

I'm sure in some areas there have been delays. Sadly this has often been the case even pre Covid. I had my last op delayed by several months twice, all a year before Covid hit.

I'm very sorry to hear of your friend. I genuinely hope the family are getting the support they need and there is some form of investigation into how their treatable cancer was ignored.

Literally millions of of patients suffering from cancer and other illnesses are not getting the treatment they need because of this obsession with an illness that is barely killing anyone

You mean a subset of those pesky CEV people, who should just be isolated in perpetuity? It's OK to leave us to rot in isolation (so everyone else can be 'normal') but still want to use us to further an agenda that would make hospitals even less safe. Because it's OK if we die of covid, but not OK if we die of cancer. Even when it's the same person dying

Lots of posts from people claiming to work in hospitals or know someone who does saying hospitalisation of young people is not something that's happening. Important to get info from people who are giving out their real names so you know at the very least who it's coming from.

This is a letter signed by many doctors in their 20s&30s, encouraging vaccine uptake that was recently published

Here's the opening statements:

We would all love the COVID-19 pandemic to be over, but unfortunately, it’s not. Many very sick people are still coming into hospital with COVID-19. There are a mix of ages, including lots of people in their 20s and 30s who have not been vaccinated.

As young medics in our 20s and 30s, we are very concerned to witness this happening to people our age. It all seems so unnecessary.

The best way out of the pandemic and getting back to normal is through vaccination. The vaccines offer us all protection from COVID-19, and lower the chance of passing it the virus onto someone else.

Young people have had to put parts of their lives on hold – which is frustrating. Sometimes it feels like we are just being left out. As young medics, we share that frustration. We want to get our lives back to normal as quickly as possible too.

If you are aged 16 or over our appeal to you is simple: Please get vaccinated.

www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n1963

@Tealightsandd

The WHO is understandably desperate to get the rest of the world vaccinated.

But it's true about-face needing to put your own oxygen mask on first (particularly bearing in mind that it's the UK poor hardest hit by Covid - and who therefore have most to lose by not getting a booster).

We also can't ignore that AZ, whilst good and worth having, is not as effective as Pfizer and Moderna. Az people in the UK should ideally have a mRNA booster.

Donated doses are a drop in the ocean. Nowhere close to enough to vaccinating the vulnerable in other countries.

Biden and Macron are right. The way to get the rest of the world vaccinated is temporary patent waiver.

I’m sure those countries would be happy with the ‘drop in the ocean’ vs nothing while we vaccinate young, low-risk people and revaccinate older people who may not actually need a booster yet.

Actually low and middle income countries have themselves stated it's a drop in the ocean and will make little difference. They've been pleading for a temporary patent waiver since last year. Even before Biden and Macron got behind their cause.

@Tealightsandd

Actually low and middle income countries have themselves stated it's a drop in the ocean and will make little difference. They've been pleading for a temporary patent waiver since last year. Even before Biden and Macron got behind their cause.

Yup, and they also need practical and financial support with infrastructure and the cold chains necessary to roll out vaccination to millions of people.

Thinking that donating a very small proportion of vaccines is going to solve the problem is incredibly naive. Malawi had to burn (they wanted to show it being done publicly) thousands of doses of AstraZeneca due to these issues.

@Tealightsandd

It's perhaps not surprising that fully vaccinated Boris Johnson is to become a father again.

I can see why the unvaccinated might struggle with fertility. Covid infection has been linked to ED in young men.

Did you forget he had covid last year?

The potential for ED is even less discussed than menstrual issues

“Countries like the UK, with almost no mitigation measures and wide open borders, are extremely high risk for the creation of a more dangerous and/or vaccine resistant variants.”

Oh stop. You’re just trying to make excuses for being grabby. The delta variant originated in India.

“ How much protection does one vaccine give?

Not enough.”

Unless someone was previously infected. In which case, it increases antibody levels to higher than double vaccinated, not previously infected people.

Yeah, I’m sure front line medics would turn away vaccines because they are a ‘drop in the ocean’

@leafyygreens so the WHO are ‘incredibly naive’ ?

@FreshFreesias

And before you go into meltdown over my comment, my closest friend died from cancer last month. It was perfectly treatable but the National Covid Service had very little interest in treating anything but Covid.

But surely if you want no covid cases in hospitals you would be campaigning for more vaccines, stricter rules etc.

@Tealightsandd Inam sure that “highly fertile” 🥴 and jabbed up Boris Johnston will really reassure pregnant women and young women who may one day want children, that the vaccine does not impair fertility 🤦‍♀️

The fact is that nobody really knows.

[quote FreshFreesias]@Tealightsandd Inam sure that “highly fertile” 🥴 and jabbed up Boris Johnston will really reassure pregnant women and young women who may one day want children, that the vaccine does not impair fertility 🤦‍♀️

The fact is that nobody really knows.[/quote]
Don't trust Johnson a jot, but i do trust the scientists and vaccine developers who are confident there is not a plausible mechanism by which it would impact fertility.

This is common scaremongering tactic about vaccines in general (see polio), none have had adverse effects on fertility.