It’s a disgrace pupils in Scotland must continue with this farce

[Igorussia]

Mask wearing, social distancing. It affects their learning, interaction and it’s gone on for long enough. Enough is enough. It was highlighted that masks are useless against the delta variant unless N95 masks. My children will be exempt from now on. This has been going on for far too long and one of my children has become very badly affected mentally by lockdown. Fuck this.

@Igorussia

I think it’s you that are the governments’ puppets! You’re doing a great job of spouting their propaganda.

Luckily these masks are not legally enforceable and they are being binned as I write.

And you're doing a great job of misreading to suit your agenda. We can read you know and have actual brains that comprehend words, so I don't know what you hope to achieve here.

@Wakeupin2022 - it has been proven that the vaccines are not so dangerous they must not be given to 12-17 year olds. The MHRA has approved them. There should be no compulsion, but it’s farcical that there is also no choice. Especially for 17-year olds who will suddenly find their lives being made difficult if they do not manage to squeeze their vaccinations in in the 3-month time window prior to their 17th birthdays. I have lost respect for the decision making when it is so completely not joined up.

*18th birthdays

Masks - OK by me.

Just as long as they stop the totally unnecessary 10 day isolation for entire year groups that meant we all lived in fear and uncertainty, unnecessary disruption to education.

Over 16s will often be double-vaccinated now so in the wider population will be exempt from self-isolation due to being even the closest of contacts from 16 August in England (earlier in Scotland). This must apply to double-vaccinated over 16s in schools now or else be legal discrimination.

@rottenatthetop
how will most 16+ kids be double vaccinated by september? Atm healthy u18s can't get a vaccine in the UK.

Even if there was enough vaccine + regulatory approval + jcvi approval as of today, it is technically quite impossible to achieve a high vax uptake, let alone a high % of double vaxxed if the rule will be min. 8 weeks between.

There is also the possibility that u18s will not get the vaccine in huge numbers because for 18 months they have been told (drilled) that they are a special kind and they are not at risk. (total bollocks, but hey, who cares).

They said they'd rather not catch illnesses from children

Then the point stands that, even prior to Covid, a school was probably not the right working environment for them.

I taught in primary schools for a decade, during which time I caught pretty much every viral and bacterial infection going, from slapped cheek to norovirus to several nasty bouts of laryngitis involving lengthy periods of voice loss. Generally spent the first week of every school holiday unwell with the usual ‘End of Termitis’ that many teachers tend to suffer from. It never once occurred to me that it was my right not to be infected with these things at work, and I’d never have dreamed of asking the children I taught to keep away from me or avoid touching me to mitigate for this. Just saw it as one of the less appealing sides of the job and got on with it.

[quote Walkaround]@Wakeupin2022 - it has been proven that the vaccines are not so dangerous they must not be given to 12-17 year olds. The MHRA has approved them. There should be no compulsion, but it’s farcical that there is also no choice. Especially for 17-year olds who will suddenly find their lives being made difficult if they do not manage to squeeze their vaccinations in in the 3-month time window prior to their 17th birthdays. I have lost respect for the decision making when it is so completely not joined up.[/quote]
The MHRA approving it is different from the JVCJ recommending it.

It is safe and that is why the MHRA has approved it. Just like AZ is safe.

But is it safer than the risk of Covid. At there last update they said it wasn't the case. But they also said it would be kept under review. It may change and Sturgeon has indicated that may happen at least for over 16s.

But we need to be clear that the MHRA /JVCI are 2 different bodies with 2 different mandates.

Maybe people should be asking the Government to sort something about the ventilation in schools, that I am sure is going to be the main problem going forward

Even if pupils end up being vaccinated it will certainly not be happening at once which is why masks and other mitigations need to continue in schools for at least the next 6 weeks.

@rottenatthetop

Masks - OK by me.

Just as long as they stop the totally unnecessary 10 day isolation for entire year groups that meant we all lived in fear and uncertainty, unnecessary disruption to education.

Over 16s will often be double-vaccinated now so in the wider population will be exempt from self-isolation due to being even the closest of contacts from 16 August in England (earlier in Scotland). This must apply to double-vaccinated over 16s in schools now or else be legal discrimination.

Not once in the last year has one case led to a whole year group out in my school (secondary)- not even multiple cases have led to whole year groups out. Mostly it's only the pupils that sit right in front, shoulder to shoulder and possibly behind that have isolated. I believe this is pretty standard for most secondary schools.

@ineedaholidaynow

Maybe people should be asking the Government to sort something about the ventilation in schools, that I am sure is going to be the main problem going forward

Absolutely.

Not once in the last year has one case led to a whole year group out

That’s great but one staff case managed to close 6 classes here.

@MarshaBradyo

Not once in the last year has one case led to a whole year group out

That’s great but one staff case managed to close 6 classes here.

Wow! Were they not behind their magic tape? Secondary school teachers are not in bubbles as we were supposed to be behind magic tape to ensure we didn't need to isolate protect us.

They are telling schools to fix ventilation and providing £10 million to support it. Al schools must have access to co2 monitors. And they have stopped isolation for whole classes/ year groups. The guidance is on the website for people to read before saying that ' the gov should....'

Monkey rumour was the dinner staff apparently!

@MarshaBradyo

Monkey rumour was the dinner staff apparently!

Ahh I see. I'm not sure how the magic tape thing applies to catering staff.

@helpfulperson is that in Scotland? £10m is a drop in the ocean to permanently fix ventilation issues in English schools

Ventilation - say a room has no windows, or just one, or they don't open properly, or open into an internal space - what will be done to fix that ? New classrooms? Is there something that can be inserted into individual rooms (not a fan!) that improves it? Simply having co2 monitors doesn't improve the air quality at all.

I moved from Scotland as soon as I was an adult and I've never regretted it but I do at the moment - I wish we were keeping these very sensible mitigations in place.

@helpfulperson is that in Scotland? £10m is a drop in the ocean to permanently fix ventilation issues in English schools

Yes in Scotland. Still not much but it's a start. Quickest fix is grills over windows to allow them to be fully opened without the risk of falls. CO2 monitors will help check where additional ventilation is needed most.

@Mistressiggi

Ventilation - say a room has no windows, or just one, or they don't open properly, or open into an internal space - what will be done to fix that ? New classrooms? Is there something that can be inserted into individual rooms (not a fan!) that improves it? Simply having co2 monitors doesn't improve the air quality at all.

You get free standing air filtration units they are about the size of a large dehumidifier.

@Wakeupin2022 - I’m not thick you know, I know the two are different bodies. The different names give that away. I’ve lost respect for the JCVI for not enabling choice when it knows that Government is penalising 18-year olds the second they reach the age of 18. Why not allow a 17 year old to go to a walk in clinic and take up spare vaccine for the day, rather than letting it go to waste? Yet since the JCVI decision, this is considerably less likely to happen, because it is officially disapproved of. And a 3-month window to get your vaccine is utterly farcical - as is the notion it is suddenly worth the risk on your 18th birthday, as is the idea it’s just about age and not stage of education. It is self-evident there is a greater benefit in public exam years than other years to be vaccinated and to have a bit more control over timing of vaccination than a ridiculous 3-month time window for a vaccine which generally comes in 2 doses, spaced apart and which is not deemed fully effective until some time after dose 2. Also ridiculous to have been lumping 12-17 year olds together as an amorphous mass. There is no credibility in claiming it is worth the risk for an 18 year old, but not for a 17 year old going into year 13.

[quote Walkaround]**@Wakeupin2022* - I’m not thick you know, I know the two are different bodies. The different names give that away. I’ve lost respect for the JCVI for not enabling choice when it knows that Government is penalising 18-year olds the second they reach the age of 18. Why not allow a 17 year old to go to a walk in clinic and take up spare vaccine for the day, rather than letting it go to waste? Yet since the JCVI decision, this is considerably less likely to happen, because it is officially disapproved of. And a 3-month window to get your vaccine is* utterly farcical - as is the notion it is suddenly worth the risk on your 18th birthday, as is the idea it’s just about age and not stage of education. It is self-evident there is a greater benefit in public exam years than other years to be vaccinated and to have a bit more control over timing of vaccination than a ridiculous 3-month time window for a vaccine which generally comes in 2 doses, spaced apart and which is not deemed fully effective until some time after dose 2. Also ridiculous to have been lumping 12-17 year olds together as an amorphous mass. There is no credibility in claiming it is worth the risk for an 18 year old, but not for a 17 year old going into year 13.[/quote]
I didn't say you were thick.

But in this post you seem to be mixing up JVCI / government.

I would be easier for the government that all 16+ (even 12+ be vaccinated).

The JVCI (Not the govt) have not yet recommended it.

@TempsPerdu

They said they'd rather not catch illnesses from children

Then the point stands that, even prior to Covid, a school was probably not the right working environment for them.

I taught in primary schools for a decade, during which time I caught pretty much every viral and bacterial infection going, from slapped cheek to norovirus to several nasty bouts of laryngitis involving lengthy periods of voice loss. Generally spent the first week of every school holiday unwell with the usual ‘End of Termitis’ that many teachers tend to suffer from. It never once occurred to me that it was my right not to be infected with these things at work, and I’d never have dreamed of asking the children I taught to keep away from me or avoid touching me to mitigate for this. Just saw it as one of the less appealing sides of the job and got on with it.

Comparing covid with slapped cheek is rather dismissive.

And someone who used to work in a school has some nerve commenting on staff who currently work in school.

Continually, people who don't work in schools feel they can tell people who do to get on with it and speak like they know they're situation.