It’s a disgrace pupils in Scotland must continue with this farce

[Igorussia]

Mask wearing, social distancing. It affects their learning, interaction and it’s gone on for long enough. Enough is enough. It was highlighted that masks are useless against the delta variant unless N95 masks. My children will be exempt from now on. This has been going on for far too long and one of my children has become very badly affected mentally by lockdown. Fuck this.

being a teacher or working in a school prob wasn't the right place for you anyway even before covid if thats how you feel about children

Jesus wept. Who on Earth are you to question people’s career choices just because you don’t agree with what they say? Hundreds of amazing staff have walked away from the profession as a direct result of the pandemic. Many more will follow - myself included. Irreplaceable experience in our classrooms. You can’t keep bashing us in this way and expecting us to turn up and do the best job we can every day.

Thing is properly effective masks are expensive. Particularly as they need to be replaced so often.

SG is being disingenuous because they simply can't or won't afford to pay for the right masks, so instead we have this charade that wearing a dirty rag over your mouth and nose makes a blind bit of difference.

I don't know what the answer is. Frankly I'm more concerned with an S4 about continuing lack of exam clarity and the still constant- albeit reduced- threat of isolation at a drop of a pin ( although can shorten with PCR test).
At this point I'll do whatever it takes for my DS to get a face to face ongoing education. So yes I'd get him vaccinated in a heartbeat- he's 15 so unlikely to be happening any time soon - if it acts as a guarantee of classroom time, and no he'll not be doing regular lateral flow tests - but will do a PCR if he has symptoms.

@motherrunner there are mechanical air filtration systems (stand alone units) which help but obviously needs the govt to buy them. A report found ventilation was inadequate in most schools going forward and needs rectifying as this virus is now here to stay.

I don't think there is an easy solution but I also see too much emphasis put on masks which don't offer much protection over time periods in poorly ventilated areas even if they are used correctly.
Majority of adults don't use them correctly (especially frequency of changing, touching, washing at 60 degrees after each use, disposal or not just shoving in a pocket or bag) let alone teenagers.

They do help for short face to face conversations at reducing risk but once sat in a room that reduces as time increases due to the small particle build up in the air.
They have almost become a symbol of "if I wear it I'm safe" which is not the case unless a FFP2/3 mask.

I do think people need to go with what they are comfortable with and if that's wearing one that's personal choice and not a issue. The issue many in Scotland have is it remaining in law especially for children who have already had their education suffer terribly. If someone is hot and uncomfortable then they will not be paying attention as much (which is understandable).
I don't think most adults would be able to do what children are being told to do (obviously bar those teachers and workers who have to do the same thing in Scotland).

Healthy children do not die of COViD, only profoundly ill children. It’s better to protect those children by either remote options or vaccinations and let other children get back to normal.

@UsedUpUsername This is extremely heartless. You are dividing children - kids! - into healthy/other. Not only that, you are then saying that the healthy kids should be allowed to "get back to normal" while the other kids put up with remote learning and vaccinations to facilitate that. Would you wish that for your children so other kids could resume normal life?

BTW, thinking COVID doesn't affect 'healthy' children, only sick ones, is fucking abhorrent. And I've never sworn on MN in the 15 years I've been on here.

It's utterly shit and just shows where on the priority list education lies for the SNP. Right at the fucking bottom. Right down below nightclubs and football.

Same as end of last term then - no getting changed for PE, no singing, no blowing into musical instruments, no practical drama. Sanitise everything, quarantining homework. Uncertainty and confusion over plans for exams next May. Teachers again being expected to get on with it, and given zero guidance from the numpties at the Scottish Government.

DD is supposed to be starting Higher Drama next week. But isn't allowed to take her mask off in class, get close to other students or use any props (as they need to be quarantined and sanitised, and never shared between pupils).

It's just not going to work. So angry on behalf on my DD and everyone like her. Queen Nicola does not give one single fuck. Even more bewildering are the people who keep voting for her and her cronies.

@barbie222 thankfully the data is showing that risk of long covid in children is also very small risk approx 1% showing symptoms at 8 weeks. Obviously there are those which will still get it but it's very low.

In England there are now long covid clinics for children along with adults. Sadly not the case in Scotland where there are still no long covid clinics and the pressure has been put on GPs instead and the already high waiting list referral process.

@2X4B523P

Wise decision, we're now 15 days since the reduction of mask use in England and cases are skyrocketing.

48,161 cases in the UK on 18th July.

21, 691 on 1st August.

I think you need to look up "skyrocketing" in the dictionary.

Wondering if all the people thinking it's great that Scotland are keeping masks have older children? Children being expected to work towards a PE qualification, playing hockey/rugby/football in their school uniform because they're not allowed to get changed? Or maybe trying to pass a Higher Music exam in clarinet/flute/trumpet/singing and not being allowed to play their instrument because blowing is forbidden as is singing? Or drama like my DD where they aren't allowed to go near other pupils or remove their masks. Or modern languages, where they are expected to model what the teacher is saying without actually being able to see their face. Or science, like DS last year, where they weren't allowed to do projects and experiments in groups or even individually because of Covid.

People are fixating on the masks thing. But it's NOT JUST MASKS. The restrictions on ordinary learning at secondary level are serious and long-reaching. Higher exams in Scotland - the ones which determine your chances of Uni - usually start end of April. Kids who are entering this year are coming into it with 18 months of disrupted education and the Scottish government do not appear to think that setting out a clear strategy is at all important.

@illuyankas

Seriously, while other countries worry about effects of delta, you are happy to expose your children without any mitigation? Mask wearing and sd don't kill or make children ill, while unlucky children die or get seriously ill with covid. I hope English school bring back masks in September.

For primary and junior schools to then? Or are under 12s not at any risk of catching on or passing covid?????????????

I'm in the UK and this is ridiculous.

Not sure of all the rules but here they could all have a sleepover or party but then have different rules in a class plus half the adults seem to think they are excempt or just refuse to wear masks.

If this vaccine is so fucking amazing why all the restrictions???

@maddy68

I teach abroad. And I'm shocked that the UK are considering teaching without masks. If we can do it in a hot country surely the UK can? even if it protects a small minority? I've lost 4 very fit, healthy, young members of my family seems a small price to pay .......

Because its only secondary? Why not younger? My local junior so 11 and under had many more cases and bubble closures than the secondary. It's not only 12 to 16 year olds that pass it on.

And the point is this sounds like it's never ever ever going to end.

The restrictions on ordinary learning at secondary level are serious and long-reaching. Higher exams in Scotland - the ones which determine your chances of Uni - usually start end of April. Kids who are entering this year are coming into it with 18 months of disrupted education and the Scottish government do not appear to think that setting out a clear strategy is at all important.

What pisses me off is that we have a national Education Recovery Group advising the government with everybody who’s anybody on it, commissioned specifically fo look at, well, education recovery. From its minutes all it seems to do is look at case numbers and vaccination rates and then dither round in circles forever about changing anything. That group decided schools should go back as they are back in early June before they’d even broken up. ‘Recovery’, indeed.

From its minutes all it seems to do is look at case numbers and vaccination rates and then dither round in circles forever about changing anything.

And do whatever the EIS want.

If this vaccine is so fucking amazing why all the restrictions???

Silly question. Do you know how vaccines work?

Yes, it's amazing as it's halted the previously inexorable rise of cases & deaths, protected the vulnerable & allowed some elements of normal life to resume.

It's not a magic potion tho.

Variants of Covid may be resistant to it, just like there would be flu variants not covered by the annual vaccine.

Equally as a new vaccine it is not fully known yet how it works with transmission. You can be vaccinated & still transmit the virus, though evidence is gradually accumulating that it does reduce transmission.

Also, it appears that while you may still catch Covid while vaccinated, it should be much less severe. However if you are someone with additional risks eg age, weight, underlying health conditions, you need to take additional precautions.

@TheGenealogist

Wondering if all the people thinking it's great that Scotland are keeping masks have older children? Children being expected to work towards a PE qualification, playing hockey/rugby/football in their school uniform because they're not allowed to get changed? Or maybe trying to pass a Higher Music exam in clarinet/flute/trumpet/singing and not being allowed to play their instrument because blowing is forbidden as is singing? Or drama like my DD where they aren't allowed to go near other pupils or remove their masks. Or modern languages, where they are expected to model what the teacher is saying without actually being able to see their face. Or science, like DS last year, where they weren't allowed to do projects and experiments in groups or even individually because of Covid.

People are fixating on the masks thing. But it's NOT JUST MASKS. The restrictions on ordinary learning at secondary level are serious and long-reaching. Higher exams in Scotland - the ones which determine your chances of Uni - usually start end of April. Kids who are entering this year are coming into it with 18 months of disrupted education and the Scottish government do not appear to think that setting out a clear strategy is at all important.

Spot on.

Well, if being vaccinated were an option for all 12-17 year olds, rather than prohibited for the overwhelming majority, you might find less fuss about masks, as those upset about lack of mask wearing can avail themselves of the superior protection of vaccines and then be a bit less concerned about those who wish to go back to no mitigation measures and who are terrified of vaccines.

Yes, it's amazing as it's halted the previously inexorable rise of cases & deaths, protected the vulnerable & allowed some elements of normal life to resume.

And that is as good as we’re going to get. Which we should be happy with as it’s very good indeed. We can’t suspend normal education indefinitely until covid has gone away, because it’s not going to go away.

And still no update on exams / assessments next year.

@Walkaround

Well, if being vaccinated were an option for all 12-17 year olds, rather than prohibited for the overwhelming majority, you might find less fuss about masks, as those upset about lack of mask wearing can avail themselves of the superior protection of vaccines and then be a bit less concerned about those who wish to go back to no mitigation measures and who are terrified of vaccines.

And if that's the right thing to do and the evidence from other countries backs it up then I'm sure that's what will happen here.

As things stand it was more risky for a teenager to be vaccinated than catch covid. (Both very very low risk). The situation is constantly evolving so it may be that the recommendation changes in the future.

We need to vaccinate the kids because it's the best thing for them, not to get overall vaccination numbers up because too many adults don't get vaccinated.

@Cismyfatarse

And still no update on exams / assessments next year.

Don't hold your breath. Remember the "blended learning for the whole year, everyone back to school, we never said blended learning" lies? Or what about "teachers will make the assessment of grades, but wait we'll need some evidence for that, so let's just run the whole exam diet twice but we'll call it assessments so that's OK, yeah?" lies?

YABVU to expect the Scottish government and SQA to have a plan for anything. As per usual, they'll pull something out of their arses with 5 minutes notice for teachers and pupils.

I honestly despair at the posters suggesting @MeanderingGently is best off out of teaching because she dared to suggest she'd rather not catch a multitude of illnesses from the children in her care.

Why must school staff be martyrs? Do you feel nurses and care staff shouldn't try not to catch illnesses from the people in their care?

I'm tired of people telling school staff to suck it up and put their job before their health.

Why must school staff be martyrs? Do you feel nurses and care staff shouldn't try not to catch illnesses from the people in their care?

Well, having worked in that area myself, if I declared “I shall be happier in a job with no old/sick people” I would not get all huffy if someone pointed out that nursing care didn’t sound like the right job for me anyway.

@Getawaywithit

being a teacher or working in a school prob wasn't the right place for you anyway even before covid if thats how you feel about children

Jesus wept. Who on Earth are you to question people’s career choices just because you don’t agree with what they say? Hundreds of amazing staff have walked away from the profession as a direct result of the pandemic. Many more will follow - myself included. Irreplaceable experience in our classrooms. You can’t keep bashing us in this way and expecting us to turn up and do the best job we can every day.

This.100%.

I've been a teacher for over 25 years. It was all I ever wanted to do since I was around 8 and started teaching younger siblings different things. There is no social distancing in schools, poor ventilation and now no isolations for close contacts. I will be wearing my mask come September (FFP3). Yes I am vaccinated. The amount of Covid security I've seen everywhere outside schools (shops, gps surgery, local hospital) is eye opening as opposed to the environment of schools.

@GoldenOmber

Why must school staff be martyrs? Do you feel nurses and care staff shouldn't try not to catch illnesses from the people in their care?

Well, having worked in that area myself, if I declared “I shall be happier in a job with no old/sick people” I would not get all huffy if someone pointed out that nursing care didn’t sound like the right job for me anyway.

That's not what the poster said though. They said they'd rather not catch illnesses from children. That's quite a reasonable attitude and I imagine all school staff, nursery staff, care staff and nhs staff feel the same.

That's not what the poster said though. They said they'd rather not catch illnesses from children.

Yes it is what the poster said.

“I shall be happier in a job where everyone keeps their distance and I can work in my own area without much contact and no children.”

It's very sad that experienced school staff are leaving the profession due to Covid risks. And that posters attack them for their concerns and basically say good riddance because they don't wish to put their health at risk for their job.