Immoral and dangerous - or sensible? Vaccination for 16 year old.

[CaptainCaveMum]

Locally many many healthy (not CV nor living with someone CV) 16 year olds are getting vaccinated. The majority of my DS’s friends have now had their first dose. I’m being encouraged (by other parents) to take DS for the vaccine.

I’m conflicted.

The JCVI has clearly said the risk (small) to these children outweighs the benefits (even smaller).
Morally I am uncomfortable about cheating the system when older and sicker people here and overseas would benefit more.

But.

From a social perspective, my unvaccinated DS may miss out on some things eg nightclubs, festivals.
And what if the JCVI are wrong?
And what if he catches COVID?

DS says he’ll do what I advise.
Please help me unpick this.

Did those of you saying that it’s a cost/supply issue actually read the JCVI report?

First paragraph references the main consideration being NHS coping and death rates. That is never going to favour vaccination if under 18s.

@ittakes2

I also suspect the governments reluctance to jab children is the cost. WHO recommend chicken pox vaccination and both US and Australia and other countries jab children with this - but not the UK and I am assuming its down to cost.

Yes - the decision in the UK not to vaccinate for CP is so weird looking in from the outside.

@FatCatThinCat

I find the position of risks v benefits for under 18s very blinkered. They need to also factor in the impact on the young of things like losing a parent or knowing they've infected someone else they love who's now seriously ill. Protecting complete strangers isn't so much of a benefit to them but protecting their loved ones is.

No no no no no no no . In considering whether to vaccinate children, the best interests of the children must be the first and central priority. Children’s bodies are not here to service their elders. Children are not pawns of government health policy.

NB I’m not against vaccinated children when there is enough evidence to ascertain it is reliably safe and the benefits to children outweigh the risks.

*vaccinating

@bumbleymummy
You seem to see children as a whole, so you think the risk is low, as a whole generation.
There are many evidence the virus can affects children severely, so I don't think it's a low risk. It's difference in perspective, I suppose. The risk of vaccine is mostly known, we know what to watch out for. So although there is a risk from vaccine, it's better risk than that of totally unknown risk of virus, imo.

I've already posted some links regarding effects of covid to the children.

The majority of the evidence shows that the virus isn’t high risk for children. The JCVI experts have weighed up the evidence and have found that the benefits do not outweigh the risks. Why do you think your opinion is more qualified than theirs?

Just to qualify - they do not outweigh the risks for the majority of children. They are recommending the vaccination for cv children so clearly, in their case, the benefits do outweigh the risks.

@bumbleymummy
It's quite funny for you to say that, doesn't same JCVI recommend people over 18 to be vaccinated because the benefit outweigh the risk? Why do you think your opinion of not getting vaccinated is more qualified than yours?

*theirs.

I was thinking the same thing about you actually. You seem willing to accept their opinion on one thing, but not the other. Just wondering why you think their recommendations for over 18s are sound but not under 18s :)

I wouldn’t be vaccinating my children against this even if the JCVI did suggest it for over 12s so at least I’m consistent .

My opinion is consistent. I'm sure someone has said earlier in the thread, that JCVI isn't the one that's regulate the use of vaccine, it has already been approved, meaning it's safe for use over 12+. JCVI's decision is not purely based on the safety.

At least I don't keep quoting something I totally disregard myself as a credible source.

Did you read the report? It’s being weighed up for the U.K. in relation to our % vaccine coverage in adults, levels of population immunity etc and takes into account the still emerging evidence of side effects in the younger groups.

Vaccine coverage or population immunity has got nothing to do with actual safety for children. More children get infected, more children get severely ill and die, more children will suffer from long covid. But it's ok, because only tiny number of children die?

If you really think the children has suffered enough, we should really protect children from unknown effects of virus, rather than let them take the chance.

@roguetomato
You know during this whole pandemic in the UK there has been 46 children/teens aged 0-19 who have died “with a positive test within 28 days”.
It has been stated in articles that the majority of them were already very poorly. It’s obviously terrible that kids and teens die, but as with the adult deaths the government is not making it clear what people in hospital with Covid are actually dying from!

@roguetomato

Vaccine coverage or population immunity has got nothing to do with actual safety for children. More children get infected, more children get severely ill and die, more children will suffer from long covid. But it's ok, because only tiny number of children die?

If you really think the children has suffered enough, we should really protect children from unknown effects of virus, rather than let them take the chance.

It really doesn’t seem like you’ve read the JCVI statement:

www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-vaccination-of-children-and-young-people-aged-12-to-17-years-jcvi-statement/jvci-statement-on-covid-19-vaccination-of-children-and-young-people-aged-12-to-17-years-15-july-2021

Like PPs, I suspect it's a supply issue rather than safety. They recommend vaccinating healthy under 18s to protect someone in the household who's CEV but won't stretch to allowing all under 18s to be vaccinated protect the whole community.

My son caught Covid in November and it wasn't a walk in the park.
He's also had seven 10 day isolations from school, he's in GCSE years and it's been very disruptive.
His brother, also in GCSE years (different school) has had 4 self isolations. His class was down to 10 from 30 during the last few weeks of term. He is athmatic, hasn't caught Covid yet.

They are both 15 and I'd welcome the vaccine.

I see Greece has just announced it will join the many other countries vaccinating 12-15 year olds.

I wish this country would show for just one second they give a shit about our children.

My 16yo ds is vaccinated.

Because he comes under CV.

However there's no more risk to him from vaccine than another 16yo.

The fact they've authorised it for over 12's is because it's safe. The decision not to vaccinate is the risk/benefit one but it also does deeper.

You've seen the data of spread in this age group in schools. People will still have to isolate with active infection from mid August.

If he can get it and reduce his chance of catching infection I'd say it's worth it.

But it should be his decision and not what you advise.

My ds was told the decision was his.

Vaccinating young people overwhelmingly only benefits old people.
I imagine I'd ask my 16yo DS what he wants to do.

These countries are vaccinating 12-15 year olds or planning to, or approved:

• Denmark
• France
• Austria
• Estonia
• Italy
• Lithuania
• Spain
• Switzerland
• San Marino
• Israel
• Dubai
• Indonesia
• New Zealand
• PCR
• Hong Kong
• Singapore
• Japan
• Philippines
• Mexico
• Brazil
• Chile
• US
• Canada

@blackrosewater

These countries are vaccinating 12-15 year olds or planning to, or approved:

• Denmark
• France
• Austria
• Estonia
• Italy
• Lithuania
• Spain
• Switzerland
• San Marino
• Israel
• Dubai
• Indonesia
• New Zealand
• PCR
• Hong Kong
• Singapore
• Japan
• Philippines
• Mexico
• Brazil
• Chile
• US
• Canada

Ireland too. It was announced the other day and registration should be open in the next few weeks. I plan to get ds done as soon as we can so he will at least have one shot before back to school.

@yeOldeTrout

Vaccinating young people overwhelmingly only benefits old people. I imagine I'd ask my 16yo DS what he wants to do.

I asked mine what he wanted to do, and he wanted to get vaccinated - partly to protect those around him, but also because he wants the country to get back to normal, and contributing to herd immunity is the surest way to achieve that.

Infection also contributes to herd immunity.

@bumbleymummy

Infection also contributes to herd immunity.

It does.

I've tried to find concrete data but cannot but I'm sure from separate figures I've seen quotes in the media the risk of long COVID is higher in children than adverse reaction to the vaccine.

I wish there was more data on this as it would certainly be helpful in the debate and decision making for many.