Immoral and dangerous - or sensible? Vaccination for 16 year old.

[CaptainCaveMum]

Locally many many healthy (not CV nor living with someone CV) 16 year olds are getting vaccinated. The majority of my DS’s friends have now had their first dose. I’m being encouraged (by other parents) to take DS for the vaccine.

I’m conflicted.

The JCVI has clearly said the risk (small) to these children outweighs the benefits (even smaller).
Morally I am uncomfortable about cheating the system when older and sicker people here and overseas would benefit more.

But.

From a social perspective, my unvaccinated DS may miss out on some things eg nightclubs, festivals.
And what if the JCVI are wrong?
And what if he catches COVID?

DS says he’ll do what I advise.
Please help me unpick this.

Let him have the vaccination, what on earth is immoral about it?

My 17 year old adult size DS would take it immediately if it was available. Nothing immoral about it. Not because either he or I think he would be seriously ill, but solely to avoid disruption to his studies. He has done 3 isolations in the past year and would like to do his A levels without the stress.

The ridiculous thing is that my home country India has announced that vaccines will be available for 12-18 very soon ( though no idea how soon). I could take him there to be vaccinated if I was allowed to travel! Seems quite bizarre that vaccines may be available to me in India sooner than here!

I suspect the government don't want to admit they don't have enough vaccine supply to do over 12s yet. But they will do in September, by the looks of it, so they will announce a change of decision then. Ridiculous but completely on brand for this lot.

“Vaccinating children before poor morally wrong, Oxford scientist says”

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57155943.amp

Maybe the UK could have sent some of those vaccines it threw away to the poor referenced in the article?

Seems quite bizarre that vaccines may be available to me in India sooner than here!

Does it? To me it seems really obvious.

@TheVanguardSix

Seems quite bizarre that vaccines may be available to me in India sooner than here!

Does it? To me it seems really obvious.

Because things are so much worse in India than here? I guess from that viewpoint it makes sense. But supply is so inefficient and inequitable in India I am not even sure how they will roll it out to the under 18s.

We shall see how all this pans out when schools open. DS has the most active social life of all of us- though he is not doing nightclubs or any large gigs. But he is meeting unvaxxed friends and takes public transport daily to school.

If children are healthy and not CEV I would prefer natural immunity, i.e. them to have the virus.

The data is showing that this will most likely offer lifelong immunity which the vaccines won't offer.

@hamstersarse

If children are healthy and not CEV I would prefer natural immunity, i.e. them to have the virus.

The data is showing that this will most likely offer lifelong immunity which the vaccines won't offer.

Could you possibly link to that data please? Everything I find on google says the opposite but would be interested to see any actual data that says otherwise

www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762

@minatrina

@hamstersarse

www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762

@minatrina

Oh I see, I was hoping more for an actual study, and unfortunately this short article doesn't link to any study or actual report. It's not clear where the numbers they're talking about came from, and a quick google doesn't seem to bring up any corroborating study or even any official report from Israel. Still, I only had a quick look but I will have to look into it more later. Thanks anyway!

@hamstersarse

If children are healthy and not CEV I would prefer natural immunity, i.e. them to have the virus.

The data is showing that this will most likely offer lifelong immunity which the vaccines won't offer.

It isn't one or the either though

Vaccination based immunity will be boosted by exposure to coronavirus, in the same way the immunity from infection is boosted by vaccination.

Doing it the first way allows for children to develop robust immunity whilst drastically reducing the risks associated with COVID.

The risks associated with covid are really low for children and, according to the JCVI, the risks of the vaccine aren’t outweighed by the risk of the virus in this group.

@bumbleymummy

The risks associated with covid are really low for children and, according to the JCVI, the risks of the vaccine aren’t outweighed by the risk of the virus in this group.

How can you say that when we don't really know the real effect of covid , that the risk is really low? There are many studies and articles says otherwise. and why many other countries are vaccinating children if the risk of the vaccine is higher than risk of covid? It really seems like it's more to do with supply rather than safety issue to me.

@AmyVindaloo

I'd be wary of giving a novel vaccine with unknown long-term effects to children who do not need it.

Has been explained to death why long term effects (i.e., those that emerge >6 weeks after vaccination are unlikely) @AmyVindaloo

I agree it's not clear-cut whether children should routinely be offered this vaccination, but I would be more wary of the unknown long term effects of a novel coronavirus

@roguetomato

I read the JCVI statement

www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-vaccination-of-children-and-young-people-aged-12-to-17-years-jcvi-statement/jvci-statement-on-covid-19-vaccination-of-children-and-young-people-aged-12-to-17-years-15-july-2021

And I’ve seen the data and read plenty of papers on the risks for young people. Based on all that information, yes, the risk is really low.

Which studies have shown that if the virus is high risk for young people?

@leafyygreens

Why do you think this coronavirus will have long term effects in particular?

[quote bumbleymummy]@leafyygreens

Why do you think this coronavirus will have long term effects in particular?[/quote]
Now that isn't what I said is it?

I would be more wary of the unknown long term effects of a novel coronavirus

So, why are you wary about long term effects from this coronavirus in particular?

How can you say that when we don't really know the real effect of covid , that the risk is really low? There are many studies and articles says otherwise. and why many other countries are vaccinating children if the risk of the vaccine is higher than risk of covid? It really seems like it's more to do with supply rather than safety issue to me.

This. I would put money on the UK doing a u turn once they have the supplies. It was the same with the AZ vaccine, it was safe for everyone until they had supplies of mRNA vaccines then that advice changed.

I'm thankful that where I live my 14 year old will have the option to be vaccinated very soon.

@bumbleymummy

I would be more wary of the unknown long term effects of a novel coronavirus

So, why are you wary about long term effects from this coronavirus in particular?

As I have (repeatedly) said, I would be more wary of the unknown long term effects of a novel coronavirus than I would of the unknown long term effects of vaccination

Op I had post viral issues after a moderate illness as a teen. It had bad effects then, at a formative life stage and I have flare up issues to this day.
This colours my view but it's something to bear in mind. There's no guarantee it will be mild illness with no post viral effects. Over a population of young people it will be low numbers (and for the NHS manageable) but some individuals will be hit hard.

Personally I'm keen to get my teen vaccinated against covid. It seems a nasty virus with the circulatory effects added in.

I also suspect the governments reluctance to jab children is the cost. WHO recommend chicken pox vaccination and both US and Australia and other countries jab children with this - but not the UK and I am assuming its down to cost.

I suspect it's cost versus the expected lack of stress that covid in kids will put on the NHS.