What do we do if cases rocket in September?

[ncnoclue]

If schools etc being closed means that cases massively drop and we can in fact, live normal lives. And then once they go back, they shoot up again and we can't cope.

Is the plan to keep everything else closed, just to keep schools open? So even though everyone who wants it has been vaccinated and there's no other answer, we keep the economy closed indefinitely to keep schools open?!

@noblegiraffe

A structural engineer probably doesn't know about my broken blinds.

Oh Lord

No, they probably don't know about your broken blinds.

On the other hand, they do know quite a lot about buildings.

@noblegiraffe

A structural engineer probably doesn't know about my broken blinds.

You want the government to step in to fix the broken blinds?

Yes, Hester but as I said there are quick fixes to improving ventilation in schools that are being overlooked if you are only looking at large scale structural improvements to buildings in order to improve ventilation.

Ventilation could be improved by giving schools ventilation funding that could be used to e.g. fix my blinds without the need to demolish the building.

You want the government to step in to fix the broken blinds?

I want the government to fund schools properly so that my school can afford to fix the blinds, yes.

If parents knew the state of some classrooms, they'd be outraged.

I think the point is that there is a reasonable amount of 'low hanging fruit'# in terfms of inproving ventilation in schools. School budgets - already stretched in a normal year, then by having to pay for extra cleaning, hand sanitiser, all other Covid arrangements - don't have the money to do the 'small pieces of work' that would have maximised them.

So small extra funding / grants to e.g. fix all the blinds, scrape paint off painted-shut windows, overhaul outdated sashes or slightly dodgy skylights, release / remove mechanisms that limit opening, even pay for additional heating or simply extra hours for caretakers could have substantially improved ventilation in many schools.

I have been really lucky, in that my classroom has a door that opens straight to outdoors and opening windows, but I have been really fortunate in that the caretaker had time and money to purchase and fit the necessary catches to hold them open against the prevailing winter wind but less fortunate in that the school really couldn't afford the extra heating so we wore all our clothes and I taught in gloves and a coat.

Really big ventilation projects would indeed have caused problems with asbestos, and other structural issues - but a bit like the medicine trials for Covid started with just squeezing the utmost out of existing drugs through small-scale trials, there was every opportunity to inject small amounts of cash to harvest all the low-hanging fruit of easy ventilation fixes before rolling out the more expensive / difficult big guns - new drug development in terms of treatment, wholly new ventilation systems in terms of schools.

Surely at some point we get to the point where covid has done its thing. If it doesnt hospitalised you the first time round it's not likely to kill you the second time.

Schools closed mostly last week in England and numbers have been falling for six days. So the drops vant be related to no mixing in schools. It's too soon. Less testing due to school closures maybe.

When it comes to vaccinating younger kids then maybe they would get better longer immunity from natural infection? Who knows? No one knows.

It's still largely unknowns and it's not going away. At what point do we stop losing sleep over it? Apart from.the fact I cant go abroad easily, my friends and family being less easy to meet up ( their choice) and me still choosing to wear a mask inside, vivid is background noise put of life to me.

I dont wake up and fret or think about it largely. I just cant go on worrying for another 16 months.

So small extra funding / grants to e.g. fix all the blinds, scrape paint off painted-shut windows, overhaul outdated sashes or slightly dodgy skylights, release / remove mechanisms that limit opening, even pay for additional heating or simply extra hours for caretakers could have substantially improved ventilation in many schools.

Exactly. People down on the ground know this. Bizarrely, some people don't want to hear from them though.

@noblegiraffe

Yes, Hester but as I said there are quick fixes to improving ventilation in schools that are being overlooked if you are only looking at large scale structural improvements to buildings in order to improve ventilation.

Ventilation could be improved by giving schools ventilation funding that could be used to e.g. fix my blinds without the need to demolish the building.

Yes noblegiraffe, but I was talking about the structural work that needed to be carried out in order to tackle the originally quoted poster's question. And I was quoting a friend of mine, who said the work necessary is more expensive and more time consuming than what could be achieved in six weeks

Yes some rudimentary superficial work is possible, whether or not that includes your blinds

Why don't you go and try and enjoy your school holidays, like your colleagues seem to be doing. You'll be back in work soon enough.

What do blinds have to do with ventilation?

How do blinds improve ventilation?

You were responding to a comment about adding in ventilation to schools.

You said "Do you have any idea what it would take to "add in ventilation" to 32,028 schools over a 6 week period"

Yes, I do have an idea. In my classroom it would take fixing the blinds.

You didn't want to hear that. Apparently you don't want me to comment on schools based on my experience of working in one and complained that I was posting about it. Which is weird.

@noblegiraffe

You were responding to a comment about adding in ventilation to schools.

You said "Do you have any idea what it would take to "add in ventilation" to 32,028 schools over a 6 week period"

Yes, I do have an idea. In my classroom it would take fixing the blinds.

You didn't want to hear that. Apparently you don't want me to comment on schools based on my experience of working in one and complained that I was posting about it. Which is weird.

But yours isn’t the only classroom . Maybe the PP was referring to the numerous suggestions on here recently to install ventilation systems, not just your particular classroom? Completely ‘out there’ suggestion I know, but maybe her response wasn’t solely about your blinds in your classroom?

@CloudPop

What do blinds have to do with ventilation?

Glad you asked, this is why people need to listen to people actually working in schools about what is needed.

The classroom in question has large, thick blackout blinds (not the normal slatted blinds). Currently a few are broken so that they are permanently closed. These cover the windows so even when the windows are open, no air can get through, because the blinds are blocking them.

Fix the blinds, improve the ventilation.

The point is, if you asked the staff in every single one of the 32,028 schools (or whatever the number is), asking them to detail precisely what it would take to improve the ventilation in their classroom or the rooms that they use, you would end up with a very large number of admittedly tiny, wildly varied, but practical suggestions.

There would, of course, be a hard core where the ONLY option would be a full-scale, expensive and time-consuming retrofit of a new ventilation system - but equally, hundreds of thousands of children could have better ventilation in their classrooms just through small local fixes, of which Noble's blinds and my heating for an extra hour a day would be examples.

But yours isn’t the only classroom

No, I could have also referred to the classrooms with locked windows because the limiters are broken? Or the windows that don't open properly (I've got one that just shuts straight away)? Or the ones painted over?

My blinds aren't the only quick fix. And yet none of them have been fixed because the government haven't taken ventilation in schools seriously.

@noblegiraffe

But yours isn’t the only classroom

No, I could have also referred to the classrooms with locked windows because the limiters are broken? Or the windows that don't open properly (I've got one that just shuts straight away)? Or the ones painted over?

My blinds aren't the only quick fix. And yet none of them have been fixed because the government haven't taken ventilation in schools seriously.

It is fairly obvious that the poster was referring to the numerous suggestions on here that the government use the holidays to install ventilation systems. Well, obvious to everyone except you anyway. .

All this sighing must be spreading Covid.

Once, long ago, the PTA gave each classroom teacher £100 to sopend on something for their classroom. We could source it from anywhere, and just had to provide receipts, but it was specified that it had to be something 'over and above' what the school normally provided.

The impact of that relatively small amount of money, in terms of improvement in children's learning in each classroom with each teacher, was enormous - because each teacher was free to get what they needed to teach their class or make the classroom environment better for their children.

Allocating a similarly small ring-fenced ventilation budget to each school would have a similar impact - and almost certainly more than a big 'pot' of money for which schools had to apply with detailed and costed proposals in triplicate from reputable contractors.

It is fairly obvious that the poster was referring to the numerous suggestions on here that the government use the holidays to install ventilation systems.

Her response to my post about blinds was to complain that I was even posting rather than to engage with what I said.

Is it not valid to respond that there are quick fixes to improving ventilation as opposed to large scale industrial efforts?

You'd think that people interested in improving ventilation in schools who are being put off by the idea that it would require massive funding and effort would be interested to hear that there are, indeed, simple and cheap improvements that could be made over the summer.

@noblegiraffe

But yours isn’t the only classroom

No, I could have also referred to the classrooms with locked windows because the limiters are broken? Or the windows that don't open properly (I've got one that just shuts straight away)? Or the ones painted over?

My blinds aren't the only quick fix. And yet none of them have been fixed because the government haven't taken ventilation in schools seriously.

OK. In my lovely perfect world, where anything is possible:

1. Do you have a caretaker?
2. If not, can you put out a plea for parental help?

Honestly, we have helped school out in painting and decorating, garden maintenance, and various odd DIY tasks. Someone, somewhere HAS to be able to take down your blinds? A local business may even sponsor the school to replace them?

[quote Tealightsandd]@HesterShaw1

Nope.

I just don't like hypocrisy. Eg. Re personal responsibility.

Quality of life. Mental health plays a (large role). The impact of stress is too often underestimated. Smoking has pros and cons.

If people and government were so concerned about quality of life, they'd start with ensuring everyone has a stable affordable home. Homelessness and insecure housing arguably impacts far more heavily on health (and society) than smoking.

Quality of life. Perhaps then, before focusing on smoking, people and government need to improve things for the disabled. Too many are left struggling facing destitution for the crime of being disabled. Such concern over public health? Yet nothing was done even when the UN condemned the UK's treatment of the disabled.

As for smell. Well it's all individual. I hate the stench of fish. Physically retch when close to someone eating it. And some people's BO...[/quote]
Name one pro of smoking. ONE.

Is the plan to keep everything else closed, just to keep schools open? So even though everyone who wants it has been vaccinated and there's no other answer, we keep the economy closed indefinitely to keep schools open?!

No, adults have all been vaccinated by September if they want to be so we crack on.

Statistically flu is worse for kids than Covid, even though there will always be done who are unlucky with anything.

We need to stop this ludicrous handwringing and get on with life.

I have no idea what that poster is interested in hearing about. It was however fairly obvious that the poster was talking specifically about ventilation systems that have been mentioned by many other posters, which I imagine is why she was frustrated.
What did your school leadership team say when you asked for your blind to be fixed?

Actually, I think it is even more cynical than 'we need to get on with life'.

Schools are being actively used by the Government as an efficient means to infect all children rapidly, aiming to achieve herd immunity at a population level (impossible with vaccines alone, because children are not being vaccinated) as early as possible in the Autumn to protect hospitals later in the winter.

@noblegiraffe

It is fairly obvious that the poster was referring to the numerous suggestions on here that the government use the holidays to install ventilation systems.

Her response to my post about blinds was to complain that I was even posting rather than to engage with what I said.

Is it not valid to respond that there are quick fixes to improving ventilation as opposed to large scale industrial efforts?

You'd think that people interested in improving ventilation in schools who are being put off by the idea that it would require massive funding and effort would be interested to hear that there are, indeed, simple and cheap improvements that could be made over the summer.

Why can't the caretaker just remove the blinds?

Has any fundraising been suggested to fix the blinds? I know the parents at our school would be happy to get involved in fundraising to fix blinds if it’s going to make a big difference to safety.