What do we do if cases rocket in September?

[ncnoclue]

If schools etc being closed means that cases massively drop and we can in fact, live normal lives. And then once they go back, they shoot up again and we can't cope.

Is the plan to keep everything else closed, just to keep schools open? So even though everyone who wants it has been vaccinated and there's no other answer, we keep the economy closed indefinitely to keep schools open?!

@noblegiraffe

You are contradicting yourself at every turn. You made your blind the focus of your ventilation issue.

But it is not a contradiction to say that the blind hasn’t been my focus of the last few months of being in school. There’s a lot of other stuff going on, you know? Or maybe you don’t.

I’m amused more than anything by the ‘practical’ suggestions at fixing this blind by people who have literally no idea what the problem looks like and yet still feel qualified to comment.

People are coming up with suggestions and solutions, rather than your negativity and can’t do attitude.

What do blinds have to do with ventilation?

In my colleague's ICT classroom - unusually without air conditioning- you can’t open the windows with the blinds closed (unless it’s an exceptionally still day - windows face prevailing winds) because the wind blows the blinds down. You can’t have the blinds open because for most of the day the sun shines directly on the computer screens so they can’t be seen properly. He’s been told he can’t open the windows.
Even with the blinds closed and the door open, the temperature in the room reaches the high 30s on a sunny day, and the atmosphere is stifling. Many schools and colleges have rooms that are not fit for purpose in this way.

We have a lovely shiny new build. It's about 4 years old.
The windows don't open at all and the mechanical ventilation louvres at the top are broken. The company who built it went bust.
Not to mention that the rooms are too small, stupid shaped and really not fit for purpose (the hoist for the loo doesn't actually hoist over the loo... our wheelchair users find that especially unpleasant)

@MrsHamlet

We have a lovely shiny new build. It's about 4 years old. The windows don't open at all and the mechanical ventilation louvres at the top are broken. The company who built it went bust. Not to mention that the rooms are too small, stupid shaped and really not fit for purpose (the hoist for the loo doesn't actually hoist over the loo... our wheelchair users find that especially unpleasant)

Goes to prove that money isn’t the only factor.

@borntobequiet

What do blinds have to do with ventilation?

In my colleague's ICT classroom - unusually without air conditioning- you can’t open the windows with the blinds closed (unless it’s an exceptionally still day - windows face prevailing winds) because the wind blows the blinds down. You can’t have the blinds open because for most of the day the sun shines directly on the computer screens so they can’t be seen properly. He’s been told he can’t open the windows.
Even with the blinds closed and the door open, the temperature in the room reaches the high 30s on a sunny day, and the atmosphere is stifling. Many schools and colleges have rooms that are not fit for purpose in this way.

Many homes, offices and other workplaces are the same.

Perhaps if the LA had chosen a builder who wasn't the cheapest and actually had a clue what buildings for schools needed to be like, it would have helped!

Many homes, offices and other workplaces are the same.

Well how reassuring that is. I’m sure you meant it to be.

Our PTA have raised funds for things that aren’t necessarily within their remit, but the money was needed urgently so that’s what it was used for, with parents approval

Ok, so I bypass management and ask the PTA for a few hundred pounds to sort my blinds. Job done. Except the teacher in the classroom next door then says ‘well I need money to replace my missing blind because the kids can’t see the board’ and the next says ‘I need money to fix the windows that are locked shut’ and the next says ‘I need money to fix the window that leaks over the kids when it rains’ and the next says ‘I need money to fix the hole in my wall’ and the next says ‘I need money to fix the Horrible Smell’ and the PTA is suddenly having to justify fixing my blind and no one else’s problem, or foot a bill for way more than they were willing to spend.

@MrsHamlet

We have a lovely shiny new build. It's about 4 years old. The windows don't open at all and the mechanical ventilation louvres at the top are broken. The company who built it went bust. Not to mention that the rooms are too small, stupid shaped and really not fit for purpose (the hoist for the loo doesn't actually hoist over the loo... our wheelchair users find that especially unpleasant)

Lots of issues with the maintainence of New Labour's PFIs. Then in a couple of decades they revert back to local authority control with a lengthy catalogue of major maintainence issues. But God forbid you pin a notice up in the wrong place.

In that era, a couppe of the schools that I worked in opted to stay in their out-,grown creaking wrecks rather than the PFI schemes.

I know what schools are like. A childhood spent with quarter of the y3 classroom taped off where the ceiling was gradually losing its battle with gravity. Changing between the drip buckets at secondary. Teaching in countless dodgy classrooms. Blinds being a common problem. I tended to find that you could normally fold them up part way and tuck the bottom into the top. Windows designed to open 2" to stop the darlings escaping were particularly vexacious anyway.

This actually wasn't a PFI build. We have a growing roll and a deal was done to get some land back (from under a building which was condemned mid term one year)
We have less space and the build is dreadful.

You can't take the blinds down because you need them shut, they are shut to keep out the sun and if they are open the sun stops kids from being able to see (presumably this happens on both of the sunny days we have per year?), but as they are broken they are stuck down - this is actually the position you need them in.
These blinds are so heavy they prevent ventilation.

But, even if they were fixed so you could open them to improve ventilation, you wouldn't because the kids would not be able to see.

Still at a loss as to how fixing them would help?

I answered that already.

Just thought I would pop on to say I too have a permanently stuck blind. The windows are about 10 foot tall so I can't reach the top. We are not allowed to stick craft paper or any paper on windows. It is all pretty academic anyway as the windows open one inch top and bottom. And yes, it's true that if you pull them up - the ones that work- no one can the see the ppt. We need other ways of ventilating, and co2 monitors.

My main classroom, as I have said many times on MN has no windows and a door on to a corridor. Not sure where a can do attitude gets me there...

Perhaps if the LA had chosen a builder who wasn't the cheapest

I'm (almost) encouraged that some of them do. Round here it tends to be the most expensive, who's therefore able to give a more generous backhander - which probably explains why they've just paid £90k for a new toilet and £18k for a replacement door, plus handing another £100k for PPE to a "partner" who'd previously received £200k for the purpose and spent none of it as intended

@MrsHamlet

Perhaps if the LA had chosen a builder who wasn't the cheapest and actually had a clue what buildings for schools needed to be like, it would have helped!

Price isn't a good indicator of quality of of a product or service.

How will some people cope if numbers don't skyrocket in September?

Whilst its possible, its also possible we'll have reached sufficient immunity levels that this doesn't happen in the way feared.

I do think numbers will creep back up, but the problem will be in January like we've had with other winter crisis and is much more to do with underfunding of hospitals than underfunding of schools for covid.

Personally I'd like money spent on health and actual education and building maintenance rather than on making adjustments to schools which are only going to have minimal effect in practice.

Too many people are desperate for vaccines not to work and for us to live in perpetual suspended normality.

We should be spending this money on mental health support not issues involving blinds on dated computers which need upgrading.

Anyone teaching over the summer knows the impact that inadequate ventilation has on teaching. CO2 monitors might well explain why so many kids are drowsy and unable to focus, but the temperature in classrooms is also not conducive to learning.

Sorting out ventilation in classrooms would have an impact on education well beyond this pandemic.

Honestly. I might take it seriously if we hadnt had the drama and ott bullshit on certain other aspects.

I find it hard to take seriously now. Its ruined credibility in certain quarters.

Im a moderate.

Think about it.

"the drama and ott bullshit on certain other aspects."

"ts ruined credibility in certain quarters."

Instead of hinting darkly, why don't you actually come out and say who/what it is you're taking a pop at there?

I expect it’s me, and the threads I started before Christmas trying to draw attention to the increasingly alarming situation in schools and the need for mitigation measures.

Given that ignoring that led to school closures from Jan to March, anyone suggesting that was ‘drama and ott bullshit’ to raise concerns really needs to think again.

Yes, there was an awful lot of "schools must never close" followed by closed schools Jan - March. Seems very reasonable in retrospect to have suggested there was a problem to be addressed.

@herecomesthsun

Yes, there was an awful lot of "schools must never close" followed by closed schools Jan - March. Seems very reasonable in retrospect to have suggested there was a problem to be addressed.

Indeed, there WAS a problem, but it was never going to be "addressed" in such a short timescale. It's very easy for people highlight problems, but those same people never seem to be able to come up with realistic solutions.

The January lock down was inevitable once the November lockdown ended. There was nothing that anyone could have done during December to prevent the January lockdown. With hindsight, the November lockdown should never have been limited to just a month and should have continued throughout December. That "may" have given enough time for cases to come down far enough for a re-opening in January. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Not sure how many people would have supported a December lockdown though. There was definite demand from a majority of the public to have a nearly normal Christmas and New Year.

those same people never seem to be able to come up with realistic solutions.

Well that’s a lie. Masks in classrooms, for example. Impossible to implement?

Yeah, LOADS of solutions offered at the time. But many on here were determined to interpret it all as lazy teachers just wanting schools to close.

Too many people are desperate for vaccines not to work and for us to live in perpetual suspended normality.

I agree with this. In particular the constant moaning about wfh by those who can and can't be arsed to commute and pay train fares anymore when they were perfectly capable of doing it before covid.

They're entirely happy for others who can't work at home to do so. Office workers think they are some special breed and I am an office worker who did go back to the office as soon as allowed. I went crazy being stuck at home all day.

A 25 yo colleague of mine came in for the first time last week in 16 months. She even wears a mask out on the street and barely leaves the house to "protect herself" when she has absolutely no health issues.

It is just utterly ridiculous and sad that someone of that age wants to live like that indefinitely.

The City of London is scary right now. On a daily basis another shop or cafe closes as it is largely empty. Where are all these people going to get jobs? City workers spend a lot of money and put a lot into the economy.

Worth it going down the pan just so people can stay living like this for no reason.