Sajid Javid - arrogant, insensitive?

[RoisinD]

SJ coming under fire from many for his tweet yesterday following his full recovery from his Covid-19 diagnosis. As Health Secretary he should have chosen his words more carefully and been more sensitive to those who lost loved ones, suffering long covid etc
Link to his tweet

twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/1418932718847541248

Link to Yvette Cooper Labour MP's retweet and response

twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1419064768837599235

@starfro

We are per capita 20th in the world, only 2 other well developed nations ahead, Italy and Belgium.
Also some very small countries in that top 20, inc Gibraltar, San Marino.

No one can say we have done well in this regard, well Boris supporters will lol!

A close relative who worked in a previous ministry of his told me he wasn’t particularly pleasant but was relatively efficient and at least listened to his civil servants though didn’t necessarily take their advice.

@PIccalilliChilli

Of course I believe you have seen it, but your original post makes out as if the London masses are living like this. I spend about three hours a day during the work week on the underground and I've literally never seen anything as you've described, so it is not widespread. Most of the people I see on the tube are wearing cheap cloth masks, and a significant minority seem to wear the mask under their nose, under their chin, or not at all. The general vibe is actually that the vast majority are not very bothered.

If I saw someone in a gas mask on public transport I'd probably assume they were very vulnerable. Just because the rules have changed doesn't mean that COVID isn't a significant risk to some people. Labeling these precautions as "cowering" is minimising what is a real risk to some people.

Unlike the current Minister who apparently is a shit in every particular.

My elderly dad died from covid last year in a care home.
he was conscripted into the army at 18 to fight in WW2 , he wasn't a coward at all ( like so many other brave people ) but he couldn't fight off covid as Saj did , because he was old and had dementia and we all know they are treated like shit at the best of times let alone during a pandemic so he he can fuck right off with his superior attitudes. Tories, always the same.

the80sweregreat - I'm sorry about your dad but clearly the Health Secretary's remarks weren't aimed at people like him.

What level of deaths wouldn't be considered "mismanagement"?

One where thousands of them weren't completely avoidable?

As pp have said, discharging positive cases into care homes is unforgivable.

Delaying lockdowns against all scientific advice because Johnson would rather see the bodies pile up in their thousands is another issue.

@ChristmasShearwater

the80sweregreat - I'm sorry about your dad but clearly the Health Secretary's remarks weren't aimed at people like him.

No? Well it still hurts about my dad and him making comments like this hurts me. He has got a superior attitude about it.

[quote Covidforever]@starfro

We are per capita 20th in the world, only 2 other well developed nations ahead, Italy and Belgium.
Also some very small countries in that top 20, inc Gibraltar, San Marino.

No one can say we have done well in this regard, well Boris supporters will lol![/quote]
I'd describe most EU countries as well developed, and I think we're 15th in the EU.

The point is that most countries in Europe were pretty similar to the UK ( and a few a lot worse).

I'm not a Boris supporter, and didn't vote for him. But there is so much wrong with the narrative that were it not for Boris very few would have died.

@noblegiraffe

What level of deaths wouldn't be considered "mismanagement"?

One where thousands of them weren't completely avoidable?

As pp have said, discharging positive cases into care homes is unforgivable.

Delaying lockdowns against all scientific advice because Johnson would rather see the bodies pile up in their thousands is another issue.

That's no an answer.

What level is acceptable? Put a number down.

@starfro

that is a silly and unanswerable question

25,000+ died in January. So nine months after the start of the pandemic and thanks in part to the mismanaged messaging in t e run up to Christmas.

And who can forget the start of the Spring term. Sunday Johnson - schools are safe. 24 hours later - close schools.

Of course having 90,000 full time posts vacant in the NHS & fewer beds than a decade ago (although admittedly more in elderly care) didn't put us in an optimum position either.

That's no an answer.

What level is acceptable? Put a number down.

No.

Trying to pin me to an 'acceptable' level of deaths to avoid responding to the fact that many of the deaths were caused by mismanagement by the government isn't going to work. You're not throwing it back on me.

Was it acceptable to discharge positive cases into care homes? Clearly not.

Was it acceptable to avoid scientific advice because you'd rather see bodies pile up in their thousands (which they did)? Clearly not.

OK some more questions along starfro's lines

What % of stupid is Boris Johnson?

How many billions of pounds should the Tories reasonably spend giving PPE contracts to their mates?

Out of 10, how out of touch should we allowTory MPs to be?

What is the maximum amount that Tory backers should be allowed to spend on domestic wallpaper?

And how many children do we think the Prime Minister actually has?

Sorry need to go and make chocolate fridge cake now.

Another one, herecomes is

How little regard do the current government have for their duty to the public?

@PiccalilliChilli

Damn anyone who has a different view on things than the majority on Mn. Just because they have experienced it I'm talking bllocks. Just because they get so easily offended without analysing the Tweet first, I'm talking bllocks. Well everyone, this is my first flounce.

(Bangs door)

I live in London ffs for ever 1 person wearing some ott protective gear there will be 100k wearing bog standard boring everyday protection. Same goes for people your husband sees on the doorstop. Stop it.

Twitter is full of remarks about how he made Hancock and Hunt look good.

I've been in London not long ago - saw lots of people going about their business but taking sensible precautions to avoid becoming unpleasantly ill. To call that "cowering" is very much foot in mouth time.

He was lucky, he got off lightly. His remarks may encourage others, more at risk, to drop sensible precautions. Another story with blood on his hands, what a surprise.

DM and her husband died in a care home in January. DM would agree with him. I am not upset by what he said at all. DM hated being locked up, she wanted to be out and about and living her remaining life, if she got Covid and died so be it, she didn't want to be hiding away. Ironically she effectively "lost" her last year of life, and caught Covid and died anyway. I assume she was pretty pissed off by that.

Just two different perspectives.

@starfro

The UK is the 5th richest country in the world, with a well developed and free health service.
Rather than compare ourselves with Slovakia etc, how about Germany or Japan?
Given our excellent vaccine rollout, why have we had so many die?

No one is saying that we could have achieved zero deaths but Germany has almost half the number per capita then the UK, Japan is 120 deaths per 1m, uk 1892.

I do love the "i'm not a Boris suppoert or voted tory... etc etc" but then defend him to the hilt :)

Was it acceptable to discharge positive cases into care homes? Clearly not

No of course it wasn't. But remember, there was not enough testing at that time, and it was not understood that Covid could be spread asymptomatically, nor by aerosols.

Our understanding of the virus has improved enormously over the months, but I always come back to the fact, that more care home residents died in the second wave than the first, and at that time, we had pretty much everything in order. Regular testing, PPE, no visitors, isolating residents etc etc etc. Just my opinion, of course, but I can't see what more DM's car home could have done to stop the virus getting in. I don't blame anyone at all.

That tweet would not just have been made in a thoughtless moment. The use of the word "cower" was deliberate. Anyone who uses it in the context of the covid precautions people choose to take is, I repeat, a grade A arsehole.

I agree foxandbee - it was thought through and a deliberate policy to keep the ERG/CRG and donors on side.

DM and her husband died in a care home in January. DM would agree with him

Would she have used the word "cower"?

The UK is the 5th richest country in the world, with a well developed and free health service. Rather than compare ourselves with Slovakia etc, how about Germany or Japan? Given our excellent vaccine rollout, why have we had so many die?

Firstly, Slovakia has an excellent health service. Moving on....

This questions has been answered so many times..... the UK, and England in particular, is one of the most diverse, and ethnically mixed nations in the world. We have unique circumstances and challenges in our population mix and living conditions. No other country is similar in that regard.

more care home residents died in the second wave than the first

More people died in the second wave than the first.

Despite knowing what to do and how to manage things, the government preferred to let the bodies pile up in their thousands.