The Times today

[ToomuchHeat]

(Last line ‘mass exposure’)

1. It is good that people who are double jabbed have a lower rate of hospitalisation (and we have seen this already)

1. How does this mean that we have herd immunity in any sense of the term?

1. Israel have seen that the vaccine diminishes in effectiveness after a period of months. It still helps but less than before.

I won't go on but we still need to be careful (as the CMO has suggested)

NannyAndJohn I'm a strong supported of lockdowns (when required), maskes and vaccines, but you are giving us a bad name and are looking ridiculous now. You are as bad as the Covid deniers and anti vaxx brigade.

OK, I don't claim to have followed all NannyandJohn's posts. But I do also think we need to be wary of accusing people of "scaremongering" just because they predict that a particular policy will have dire consequences. Sometimes dire predictions can turn out to be right. My understanding is that the WHO is highly critical of the UK's current policy.

It seems any criticism of our government gets deleted these days.

Here's a relevant article from a prominent scientist:

blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/07/16/kit-yates-how-can-we-reach-herd-immunity/

It seems any criticism of our government gets deleted these days

Not noticed that.

It seems any criticism of our government gets deleted these days

Mumsnet would wither to an emaciated hub of Christmas and Gardening talk if that were true.

@FourTeaFallOut

It seems any criticism of our government gets deleted these days

Mumsnet would wither to an emaciated hub of Christmas and Gardening talk if that were true.

Exactly. Not a day goes by without a moany thread about Boris. His hair/ how many kids he has/crap at his job , you name it.

[quote NannyAndJohn]It seems any criticism of our government gets deleted these days.

Here's a relevant article from a prominent scientist:

blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/07/16/kit-yates-how-can-we-reach-herd-immunity/[/quote]
It’s relevant, but clearly an opinion piece.

Personally, I’m feel the government is — wittingly or otherwise — on a path towards a sensible management of covid.

We’ve ditched the idea of zero covid. And we seem to be going not toward herd immunity per se, but rather towards a kind of herd tolerance.

That’s rather like how we deal with colds and flu.

I wish they’d come out and say it, as it would add a lot of credence to their actions. (Finally they’d be seen to have a strategy!) But to be honest, better to have actions given the choice of either.

The MN rules include:

“No trolling, misleading or deliberately inflammatory behaviour”

I’d suggest posting unsubstantiated opinion as fact, especially provocative opinions that will likely cause great anxiety, fits into this category. People can choose to report each and every one of these kinds of posts and allow MNHQ to decide.

@LilyPond2

OK, maybe not millions of children suffering from long Covid, but surely not unreasonable to think long Covid cases in children could be in the thousands if the government continue with their plans to allow Covid to spread unchecked among school children in the Autumn.

Yes it's a concern and risk. But surely there's also a risk in the future that a version of Covid which is more dangerous to children turns up and we find that all those who had the 'mild' strains (alpha, delta etc) are much less affected have immunity to the worse strains. I'm concerned that trying to hide our kids from covid right now could end up being a decision we regret down the line. It seems to me to be as much a risk as long covid. We none of us know the future

It seems any criticism of our government gets deleted these days

😀

@AnyFucker

It’s time for NannyAndJohn to be banned, surely

Amen to this.

The thing about long Covid is that a. It’s self reports and b. It seems to include vague things like fatigue and tiredness.
Surely any study would have to be compared with levels of tiredness in the general population not suffering from long Covid to be valid?

@Puzzledandpissedoff

Maybe try not to feed it, ToomuchHeat? Despite the spamming of every single Covid thread, I took the trouble to look up PHE's numbers about Long Covid and every single one of them was based on "estimated numbers of self reports"

Nobody's suggesting on here that it doesn't exist - post viral syndrome has always existed - but it could just be worth delaying the panic until we have a more reliable idea of how many are affected, or even a proper method of diagnosing it

Agree. I had long covid if you count being unwell or not fully recovered or a symptom for 5 weeks or more.

I actually had very bad post viral symptoms and yes - I was quite unwell for a time but I had the same posh viral recovery after I had the flu back in the 90's.

@HeddaGarbled

It seems any criticism of our government gets deleted these days

😀

There'd be very little media or online web chats if it was

@sashagabadon

The thing about long Covid is that a. It’s self reports and b. It seems to include vague things like fatigue and tiredness. Surely any study would have to be compared with levels of tiredness in the general population not suffering from long Covid to be valid?

There is an official government[I think] list of long covid symptoms. Which are quite good in my opinion[had long covid for much of last year]. The list does not bear that much resemblance to cfs symptoms. I see over and over again, people say it is cfs. Rarely do I correct things, but thought I would on this occasion.

posh viral recovery

Stealth boasting over sickness, how very Mumsnet 😁 😉

@Greentrees2021 Do you have any facts or medical info to back up this theory? I’m very stressed about my DC catching covid (one already has) and this actually made me feel a bit better so I’d like to know more about it.

I don't think "herd tolerance" has been recognised scientifically?

Do we know the sex+age-group-adjusted prevalence of long covid, post-confirmed infection?

This suggests risk of getting LC is lowest for people under 30 & males.

@UmbilicusProfundus

The MN rules include:

“No trolling, misleading or deliberately inflammatory behaviour”

I’d suggest posting unsubstantiated opinion as fact, especially provocative opinions that will likely cause great anxiety, fits into this category. People can choose to report each and every one of these kinds of posts and allow MNHQ to decide.

Yes, best thing to do is report every time. And then ignore. Don’t feed it.

@herecomesthsun

I don't think "herd tolerance" has been recognised scientifically?

Maybe it’s about time it was. ;-)

But good point, and all the more reason why the government should come clean about what it’s pursuing.

But either way, I feel more comfortable about it’s current approach than at any time over the past 18 months. Not saying much, I know…

@LilyPond2

Nobody's suggesting on here that it doesn't exist - post viral syndrome has always existed - but it could just be worth delaying the panic until we have a more reliable idea of how many are affected, or even a proper method of diagnosing it. The trouble is that if the government pursues its current policy, huge numbers of children will already have had Covid by the time more research has been carried out. If your research subsequently establishes that long Covid is going to wreck the lives of a significant number of children, it will be too late to turn the clock back.

Also, government clearly think it's a big enough issue to be building long covid centres. I wish they would invest in both short-term and long-term ventilation measures in schools as other countries have done through the pandemic to at least lighten viral load and reduce covid risk.

@TerrylikesYoghurt

None I'm afraid except that surely it's logic. If there is a variant that's worse for children that comes along then those with some immunity will surely fair better. And the way for children to get immunity seeing as they can't be vaccinated is to catch Covid. I feel worried sometimes about my children not catching covid now and then in the future really wishing they had. I guess the point I was trying to make is that we could heavily impact their childhoods with all sorts of measures to avoid them getting long Covid and then that could turn out to be the wrong thing. We just need to get on with living and be thankful that it really doesn't seem to impact children because one day something in the future could and we've wasted all these years.

Also, government clearly think it's a big enough issue to be building long covid centres

I wish the government had given a shit about post viral complications before, they can be truly debilitating. My son was quite seriously ill for months following a bout of hand, foot and mouth and we just kept getting told he’d ‘get over it’. Glad to see it’s finally being recognised as an actual thing.