Mandatory vaccines for care workers now law.

[MercyBooth]

Big Brother Watch
@BigBrotherWatch
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Police cars revolving lightBREAKING

Mandatory vaccines for care workers is now law. Millions more workers will be affected.

The House of Lords passed the new law after just 90 minutes debate, with a regret motion noting there is insufficient evidence for it and that the severity of impact is unknown.

twitter.com/BigBrotherWatch/status/1417573871130234883?s=20

@MaxNormal

Toesies if you're referring to the HepB vaccination, that is predominantly for protection of medical staff who come into contact with blood and other bodily fluids.

It's also something said staff would have been aware of as a requirement prior to training for and accepting the role.

Finally, it's guidance rather than law for the Hep B vaccine, so making it an actual law is not precedented.

But my main point remains that this is going to lead to a worsening of the care home staffing crises and it's the very vulnerable residents who will suffer.

You were implying that because the care industry has a predominantly female workforce from the working class - including ethnic minorities - the Government feels it can get away with mandating Covid vaccinations there, but it wouldn't in a workforce grounded in a middle-class male population. It had nothing to do with HepB. vaccination.

Toesies I was, yes. I'm assuming you disagree?

Well that's the beauty of it for the government, governing bodies, care providers and wider society.

When the shit hits the fan and news starts breaking about neglect and abuse that is down to lack of adequate staffing, the care staff left will be the ones who get the blame - it's always been this way and this will happen with this, for administering poor and dangerous care. The blame will be directed at the individuals who are there and that will divert opinion away from the fact that you can be the best, most well intentioned care worker in the world, the laws of physics dictate you can only be in one place at one time and lack of staffing is going to have a huge impact on welfare. It already does, it can't afford to get worse, but it will.
I will leave when it starts to, I'm not going to bust my chops, torn in 10 different directions because we are short staffed, and then be blamed for the lack of adequate care, for pence above minimum wage and being treated like society's skivvy and scapegoat.

There's a reason why there's no real legal limit applied to residents to staff ratio, and that's so staffing levels can be kept as low as possible without any come back on the decision makers and the care providers. It's up to the care providers to decide what is appropriate, because the guidance provided to meet the law is that staffing levels must be "appropriate" for the amount of people and their needs, because they are ever changing.
Care is a business, and what is always at the heart of business? Profit. When you have ways to save money and make more profit that is basically not policed, even though it leads to poor care, and the added bonus that you can blame someone else, there's absolutely no reason for businesses to provide adequate staffing levels.

@MaxNormal

It's going to have a huge impact and staffing levels, which are already an issue. Its a badly paid and demanding role so a lot of care workers will resign. No-one to replace them either, since we are post Brexit.

There is going to be real risk, suffering and neglect as a result.

My above post was in response to this.

Quote fail 🤨

I can absolutely see why people might feel uncomfortable about this but I think it's great news. I've seen people on other threads be told to go and get another job if they don't want to work with people not wearing masks. So if you don't want to get a vaccine, yet work in care - what's the difference? Can't have it both ways.

When the staff shortages kick in, it’ll be ok because all these altruistic vaccinated people will step into to do these jobs for minimum wage. They’re all about ‘all being in it together, the greater good and helping others’ after all.

My dp's dd relies on 24/7 care by professional carers, we can't mandate what they do in their spare time long term (last March 3 moved into the house she lives in and stayed until May) so knowing they are vaccinated against all the things we normally are, plus they have hep b is comforting. All her care team are vaccinated against covid because the managing company mandated it in February

@MaxNormal

Toesies I was, yes. I'm assuming you disagree?

Yes, I disagree. I think we disagree on motives. I'd think the surgeons in my middle-class example are also feeling the pressure to be vaccinated - given their setting - so I don't believe the fact that care homes are supposedly "low-hanging fruit" is the reason vaccinations are being mandated there. Residents are extremely vulnerable. Vaccines don't work as well for them. That's it. That makes the care home setting a critical one.

Btw my employer pays for my flu vaccine and has already spoken to local gp to ensure I can get a covid booster shot (I'm too young to qualify) as I work with vulnerable (older) people.

@changingstages

I can absolutely see why people might feel uncomfortable about this but I think it's great news. I've seen people on other threads be told to go and get another job if they don't want to work with people not wearing masks. So if you don't want to get a vaccine, yet work in care - what's the difference? Can't have it both ways.

Can you see how care workers who don't want to be vaccinated following your advice here might lead to significant problems in a sector that already struggles to recruit enough staff?

Given that the vast majority of the UK adult population have been vaccinated already, will we really see swathes of care workers leaving the profession? Is vaccine uptake particularly low amongst care workers?

@ForeverAlone1987

I thought the vaccine was to prevent yourself getting seriously ill with covid? I dont think this vaccine stops you spreading it. So shouldnt it be down to the care workers as to whether they risk getting seriously ill? Someone correct me if i am wrong with my first sentence, just incase ive completely gotten it wrong lol

It reduced the risk of transmission by about a half, so yes, it does help to reduce the chances of it spreading.

@foxandbee

Given that the vast majority of the UK adult population have been vaccinated already, will we really see swathes of care workers leaving the profession? Is vaccine uptake particularly low amongst care workers?

Every care worker I know, through family and friends/friends of friends, are fully vaccinated and we're some of the first to get their vaccines.

I wonder what the percentage of those who aren't is within care?

But my experience may well be skewed as I only know 2 people personally who were anti the jab, and both are now fully vaccinated (not that they've updated their Fb stance on it, but I do know both slunk off and got jabbed quietly through other close family) so my real life experience is that few people full stop are not being jabbed. It's only here in MN I see people very anti-covid vax,

Given what we now know about the possibility of break through infections and the fact that care home residents are as vulnerable as it’s possible to be to covid, this is the right thing to do.

There will be high levels of covid circulating in the community for the foreseeable. That’s not a huge problem for the vast majority, but we do need to protect this sector in any way we can.

... on the upside, with care staff leaving their profession by the 10,000's the wages will go up.

And pigs might fly! It's much more likely that care homes will just shut, and who will pick up the task? Why, the middle aged and predominantly women.

Iquitit - I fully agree with your posts of 8:13 and 10:47 - very well explained.

I feel angry about this - Johnson's Government does not give a shit about the old or anyone needing care, which isn't just the old. Instead of holding up their hands and admitting that they failed last year, they are trying to pass the buck to those working at the sharp end of the sector.

Where is the evidence that 10s of 1000s of care workers will quit? The vast majority will have been vaccinated already, just like the rest of the adult population.

@MercyBooth

Yes Because people infected with Covid were discharged into care homes without testing.

I don't understand this logic at all @MercyBooth

The government have made multiple catastrophic mistakes in the handling of the pandemic

why does this mean that vulnerable people should continue to be put at risk?

84% of eligible workers in older adult care homes in England have had one vaccination and 70% have been double jabbed so far. I can't provide the link to the document as on phone and can't work out how to but can later if any one wants to see.

Here it is. www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/supplementary-information/

If you scroll down it is the third doc down.

@TheKeatingFive

Given what we now know about the possibility of break through infections and the fact that care home residents are as vulnerable as it’s possible to be to covid, this is the right thing to do.

There will be high levels of covid circulating in the community for the foreseeable. That’s not a huge problem for the vast majority, but we do need to protect this sector in any way we can.

I agree. We're not the only country doing this either. Covid will be here long term and it's necessary to look at strategies to keep vulnerable people safe in care settings.

@foxandbee govt own best estimate is 7% remain unvaccinated & therefore loss of approx 40,000 from workforce.

www.gov.uk/government/consultations/making-vaccination-a-condition-of-deployment-in-older-adult-care-homes/outcome/statement-of-impact-the-health-and-social-care-act-2008-regulated-activities-amendment-coronavirus-regulations-2021

Thanks Northern.

^changingstages

I can absolutely see why people might feel uncomfortable about this but I think it's great news. I've seen people on other threads be told to go and get another job if they don't want to work with people not wearing masks. So if you don't want to get a vaccine, yet work in care - what's the difference? Can't have it both ways.^

Can you see how care workers who don't want to be vaccinated following your advice here might lead to significant problems in a sector that already struggles to recruit enough staff?

Yes @ButteringMyArse I could see how that might be a problem if the vaccine take up rates among care workers wasn't already high. So it'll just be the ones who REALLY don't care about the potential of infecting those they have to look after that have to quit. And I don't really care about them.

Lawsuits are currently being brought by people who have been disabled by the AZ vaccine. I'd imagine if someone was forced to have the jab by their workplace, then ended up disabled or dead, they or their family would have a very good case.