Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Covid

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

Mandatory vaccines for care workers now law.

320 replies

MercyBooth · 20/07/2021 23:46

Big Brother Watch
@BigBrotherWatch
·
2h
Police cars revolving lightBREAKING

Mandatory vaccines for care workers is now law. Millions more workers will be affected.

The House of Lords passed the new law after just 90 minutes debate, with a regret motion noting there is insufficient evidence for it and that the severity of impact is unknown.

twitter.com/BigBrotherWatch/status/1417573871130234883?s=20

OP posts:
MercyBooth · 26/07/2021 01:38

People are being tongue in cheek about it. Thats all.

OP posts:
Intercity225 · 26/07/2021 12:29

I think a lot of people struggle not to feel contempt for care workers full stop, but are still more than happy leaving their elderly and vulnerable relatives in our care.

Of all the parents, I have met since DD was in residential schools from the age of 10, I have only come across regret in mothers that their children could not go to mainstream schools and have normal lives like most children; but there were no local schools suitable for their child and many had failed in mainstream already (or been bullied/depressed/suicidal).

I wish I could have DD home permanently; but I cannot look after her 24/7, and do all the cooking, housework, extra laundry on my own with practically no sleep, no respite, and no holidays ever; and no matter how ill I feel, I still have to look after her. Our other DD has also developed severe mental health problems as a result of watching what has happened, and needs considerable support from us too. The fact is if DH and I both got Covid and ended up in hospital, there would be nobody capable or willing to look after her, and she would die at home, without her medication or food or personal care. Whereas we know, if one or two careworkers test positive on her house, if nothing else the team leaders step in and do a shift, looking after her (or any of the others).

It does not mean I am more than happy to leave DD in the care of care workers. I wish people would stop trotting out this idea, that all families dump their relatives in care homes, because they can't be bothered to look after them. We have had decades of stress - it is the lesser of two evils, where the worse one will kill me and DH. I've had two breakdowns and he has had two heart attacks.

Mreggsworth · 26/07/2021 13:05

This is a difficult one, while I feel its harsh to strong arm someone into making a choice (though a believe not having the vaccine is a selfish choice, however, it is a choice) i would not feel right treating an elderly vulnerable person if I wasnt vaccinated. I currently know someone with lung cancer who cant get vaccinated, its explicit in his care plan only vaccinated individuals adhering to full ppe can work with him.

I guess this may result in people leaving care, but perhaps that's for the best if the risk of them being unvaccinated is too high for vulnerable patients.

TheTallOakTrees · 26/07/2021 15:35

@HerrenaHarridan

If you aren’t willing or able to get the vaccine then care work (which by its very nature can rarely be effective at non-infectious distance) probably isn’t for you at this time.

It’s not your right to risk the people you work with getting preventably ill.

Honestly parents pre 1950s would have sacrificed their first borns for the access to vaccines we have. We have only had a tasted of what they lived in fear of all the time.
Polio, small pox, diphtheria, measles, mumps, rubella etc etc could sweep through a town and send every infant to the grave yard

I can’t believe the government have to force this really!
I wish people could just do the right thing without it being mandated by this ridiculous shit show government.

This.

Sad that some people who work with extremely vulnerable people cannot bothered to get the vaccine and are willing to put their vulnerable people they 'care' for at risk. That is not caring but dangerous.

nannynick · 26/07/2021 21:05

Looks to me that the legislation is here: www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2021/891/made

Motorina · 26/07/2021 21:32

@nannynick - thank you.

On quick skim, it’s much broader than I expected, covering everyone who enters a care home who isn’t a relative, in the emergency services, or doing urgent maintenance.

That catches a lot of people. Hairdressers. Doctors, dentist, podiatrists, District nurses... Routine maintenance - painting and decorating and so on. People doing activities - music, crafts, Christmas events. Clergy.

Lots of people are going to be caught up in this that did not expect to be. And I suspect it will end up reducing availability of non-core services within care homes.

Tealightsandd · 26/07/2021 21:38

Agree 100% HerrenaHarrudan and TheTallOakTrees

Tealightsandd · 26/07/2021 21:39

Harridan even.

Willyoujustbequiet · 26/07/2021 21:48

Good

The right to refuse the jab does not trump others right to life.

nannynick · 26/07/2021 22:05

What other occupations will this also happen in?
I am already hearing about parents wanting their nanny to be vaccinated, otherwise they will sack them and get someone else.

Is that going to be legal? I guess if there less than 2 years then as long as notice is paid there is no claim for Wrongful Dismissal.

Where else do you think we will see it happening... nursery staff, teachers, youth group leaders, sports club staff, all sorts of community group leaders?

@Motorina I was surprised the legislation did not cover care workers in the community. Maybe I missed seeing that, or maybe it's in some other legislation. Or maybe it's not covered in legislation yet.

ZednotZee · 26/07/2021 22:11

It will happen to you all and you shall celebrate it by the look of things.

Vivana · 26/07/2021 23:38

I hope it does happen to more sectors and not just us who work in social care and the NHS. People entering the homes should be vaccinated and wear ppe like we still have to. If we're protecting the vulnerable then so should everyone.entering the care home.

Iquitit · 27/07/2021 08:33

@Intercity225

I think a lot of people struggle not to feel contempt for care workers full stop, but are still more than happy leaving their elderly and vulnerable relatives in our care.

Of all the parents, I have met since DD was in residential schools from the age of 10, I have only come across regret in mothers that their children could not go to mainstream schools and have normal lives like most children; but there were no local schools suitable for their child and many had failed in mainstream already (or been bullied/depressed/suicidal).

I wish I could have DD home permanently; but I cannot look after her 24/7, and do all the cooking, housework, extra laundry on my own with practically no sleep, no respite, and no holidays ever; and no matter how ill I feel, I still have to look after her. Our other DD has also developed severe mental health problems as a result of watching what has happened, and needs considerable support from us too. The fact is if DH and I both got Covid and ended up in hospital, there would be nobody capable or willing to look after her, and she would die at home, without her medication or food or personal care. Whereas we know, if one or two careworkers test positive on her house, if nothing else the team leaders step in and do a shift, looking after her (or any of the others).

It does not mean I am more than happy to leave DD in the care of care workers. I wish people would stop trotting out this idea, that all families dump their relatives in care homes, because they can't be bothered to look after them. We have had decades of stress - it is the lesser of two evils, where the worse one will kill me and DH. I've had two breakdowns and he has had two heart attacks.

I'm sorry you've had to face that, your daughter deserves good care, everyone does. But that's not going to be achieved by people treating those doing the care dismissively and with contempt.

Do you resent the people who look after your daughter? Or care workers in general?

It's attitudes like
I can’t believe the government have to force this really!
I wish people could just do the right thing without it being mandated by this ridiculous shit show government.

This, indeed why did the government float this legislation 4 months into a brand new vaccination program, when all care workers hadn't had the chance to have it yet? When this legislation was first announced, I will have been on the 'unvaccinated' list because I'd only had my first one by then, and a couple of colleagues hadn't had theirs at all because they were within the 4 week window of testing positive for covid, therefore had to make other arrangements that took time and put them 1-4 weeks behind the rest of us. Everyone has been now vaccinated in my home, none of us refused. The figures being thrown around to justify this included people in those situations, but there was no distinction made between 'unvaccinated = selfish, nasty care workers' and 'unvaccinated = can't have it yet or not been offered'

And this

Sad that some people who work with extremely vulnerable people cannot bothered to get the vaccine and are willing to put their vulnerable people they 'care' for at risk.

Can't be bothered. Totally dismissing any needs, thoughts or feelings that care workers themselves might have, as human beings with lives outside of work, any concerns they may have, it's just being put down to they can't be bothered.

I've not seen one person ask why and I wonder why those concerns and issues aren't being addressed, working with people always gets better results than working against them, especially in a sector where the idea of being vaccinated to do the job has never been a conversation never mind a requirement. The fact that people keep throwing up "It's not a new requirement" just goes to show how little people know in general about how social care works. Pre covid, the only requirement to work with these groups was a clean DBS - and that doesn't include some offences now either. Now it's that and a covid vaccination.

Treating care workers like they only exist to facilitate care of other people, dismissing their concerns, worries and issues in favour of well do it or lose your job, isn't really a way to show they're valued and why wouldn't you want the people looking after the most vulnerable in society to feel valued? Surely that leads to a better outcome for those being cared for?

Mandating this only serves the government to say "Look at how we've safeguarded your vulnerable people! Look what we did! I know we put them at risk at the start of all this, and intend to do so again in less than a month, but look! We made all those nasty selfish care workers get vaccinated or get out!"

The way this has been done has made it very clear that care workers are simply seen as a way to get the people who need care looked after, and nothing else, and that the skills they have are throw away, and not worth anything because no one wants to have a discussion, talk about the concerns, give education or training around infection control and vaccination, it's do it or else.

Well some people have chosen the what else, and will continue to do so, because there's very little in the way of reward or incentive for doing this essential job anyway. And we have an ageing population and better survival rates for just about everything.

This is a new illness and a new vaccine, no one knows the long term effects of either, and as someone who is vaccinated, I'm not really reassured by the fact that the companies that made this and the people who rolled it out are immune from any kind of come back should problems become apparent in the future, but that's my choice to make, as it's my risk. I chose to be vaccinated.
No one will help with those things, are the people all saying that it should happen going to support me in the future if the vaccine does cause me an issue? Are they going to come and work alongside vaccinated staff on short staffed shifts to ensure that proper care is delivered if we lose workers over this? Are they going to speak up and ask that pay, training and working conditions are improved to attract more people to the industry? Are they going to ask for a proper vaccination program, proper infection control training and measures for care workers that includes more than covid?
Are they going to demand that all residents and visitors are vaccinated because anyone coming into contact with vulnerable people also poses a risk?

Or will they shrug their shoulders and look the other way?
I highly suspect the latter.

As I've said about a million times, I would support vaccination for care workers, done properly with training, education and information around this subject, I don't have an issue with vaccination for care workers, I have an issue with how this is being done.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 27/07/2021 09:14

Europe and America are doing the same. I would never put my relative in a home with unvaccinated staff.

It’s not like the U.K. is doing this in isolation.

Students need vaccines to access university in the US. It’s being considered here.

Intercity225 · 28/07/2021 09:49

Do you resent the people who look after your daughter? Or care workers in general?

I don't resent care workers, I resent your attitude that relatives are only too happy to leave their relatives in care homes. I come across parents of grown up children with learning disabilities, autism, neurological conditions and often challenging behaviour; but I dare say its the same for relatives of the elderly with dementia?

In my experience, relatives have usually reached the point of breakdown, because they can't cope anymore on their own - and the person's needs have got beyond the ability and resources of an ordinary family, especially when the mother is being violently beaten up regularly by her adult son, who is bigger and stronger than her. It's not that they are only too happy to dump their relative in a care home; but that they can't carry on.

Or, they want to find a care home of their choice, before they die for their child, while they are still around to ease the transition; rather than leave it to the LA to find the nearest and cheapest place on the day of their death - so their child has to cope with their death, and moving to a new home, not of their choice all at once. One of the charities I belong to, has to fundraise to pay for play therapy for their residents, to help them cope with that situation, because LAs won't fund it.

It does not mean to say that parents find it easy - I have read the heartbreak of parents and siblings, who have not been able to have their grown up children (with the above disabilities) home since March 2020, without putting them through 14 days self isolation on their return. In an ideal world, parents wish they could cope; but they can't.

Mary1Mary · 28/07/2021 11:31

The assessment claims that this is likely to mean that 40,000 staff are unlikely to be able to work in care homes within the next 16 weeks. In addition, the statement identifies an associated cost of £100 million to recruit and train replacement staff

www.carehome.co.uk/news/article.cfm/id/1653739/covid-vaccine-mandatory-care-staff-11-november

Iquitit · 28/07/2021 13:05

I don't resent care workers, I resent your attitude that relatives are only too happy to leave their relatives in care homes. I come across parents of grown up children with learning disabilities, autism, neurological conditions and often challenging behaviour; but I dare say its the same for relatives of the elderly with dementia?

I said that people who resent care workers are only too happy to leave their relatives (and those of others) in our care. They are expecting the service, not willing to acknowledge the issues that are present, and resenting and blaming care workers for them, instead of acknowledging that treating care workers better will get people cared for better, and treating them worse will result in poorer care, either from lack of staff being recruited and retained, or the staff that are left being under worsening conditions but also blamed by society because of those conditions, but still care homes are full and people need caring for.

The comment I made was in response to another poster saying they resent care workers that are not being vaccinated, my response that was IME and opinion many seem to resent care workers full stop. That opinion has been developed over a fair few years in care, and seeing care workers come under fire for the failings in social care and take the brunt of the blame, the fact that it's a minimum wage job, with no job benefits except those legally required and under difficult conditions with someone else's profit margin at the end of it rather than the people who should be getting the care they pay for - but the resentment is all directed towards the workers that people are still expecting to go out and care for their relatives.

If people have so much resentment and so little regard for care workers, why are they leaving their vulnerable people in our care, if we're that bad?

That's what I was driving at, you chose to respond, although apparently you don't hold the views of resentment I'm talking about?

HBGKC · 28/07/2021 13:12

@HelgaDownUnder you said "In Australia expressing vaccine scepticism, including outside of work, is a sackable offence for staff employed by public hospitals. Is NHS the same?"

Do you have a source for this? Absolutely shocking!

Mary1Mary · 28/07/2021 13:30

www.gov.uk/government/news/frontline-health-and-care-staff-can-work-rather-than-self-isolate

How do relatives feel about this?

Vivana · 28/07/2021 21:45

I will isolate I don't care if the government want care workers in. What about if the care assistant has to use public transport to get to work. It really doesn't make sense.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page