96 dead today...

[Homeontherangeuk]

But Boris knows what he's doing...

[quote Blessex]**@leafyygreens* It's not good practise to put the onus on individuals when it should be guidance coming from PHE and the government.*

You see I disagree with this. The government IS giving guidance. What they have done is to stop that guidance being law. I for one am very happy for that. Would you want healthy eating to be the law? Or no smoking or drinking? We all have to take responsibility for our own health. Now the vaccines are administered the law is now removed. Good.[/quote]
I don’t think smoking and drinking are good examples in this case. Whilst as an individual you are free to smoke or drink alcohol the aspects that do affect others are heavily legislated to minimise harm to anybody else. You’re free to do them but only within the confines of what the law allows.

@TheKeatingFive

I find myself going back to why China sought to eradicate/supress CV?

Why did they do this? they study CV for decades, know more about CV than anyone and came to this conclusion.

We were told CV was seasonal and respiratory but both absolutely not true, vaccines aren't stopping infection of transmission, 92% of uk adults have CV antibodies, still catching it.

I think Cv has the potential to go far further and we ignore this at our peril.

@jasjas1973 I disagree. Restrictions won’t be put back.

I find myself going back to why China sought to eradicate/supress CV?

Same reason as everyone else I presume. It had the potential to overwhelm their healthcare systems.

And it would have been a lot easier for everyone if they had managed it. However, pretty much the second they lost that battle, covid was here to stay.

I’m not sure where you’re going with that particular thought, but we need to start taking the enormous and multifaceted costs of lockdowns and restrictions seriously and trying to balance that with our covid response. We’re not going to stop transmission short of returning to a hard lockdown and that would really need to be at a global level. I don’t see that as proportionate to what covid ‘might’ do. Even if it looked like it would work, which seems unrealistic.

@jasjas1973 I disagree. Restrictions won’t be put back

Headlines today saying Sage talking about restrictions to return 1st week of August.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow I don’t read the media anymore. Hysteria.

[quote ArseInTheCoOpWindow]**@jasjas1973 I disagree. Restrictions won’t be put back

Headlines today saying Sage talking about restrictions to return 1st week of August.[/quote]
They say if hospitalisations soar above expected levels. JVT suggested we could expect around 1500 so unless the go to around 2k+ a day I don't think restrictions will come back.

[quote Blessex]@jasjas1973 I disagree. Restrictions won’t be put back.[/quote]
Yes they will, not LDs but masks, SD, table service in pubs, further travel ones.
Look at Israel and Holland, we are not unique.

CV will just keep re infecting people, regardless of antibodies.

I thought concensus was CV is respiratory jasjas? I agree not looking seasonal anymore ( unlike last summer when it did)
I’m a bit more hopeful re. Vaccines. I agree they do not stop catching it but anecdotally my dh double jabbed caught it down the pub during the football and yet me and the children have not caught it. All testing negative. I am also double jabbed ( 2nd dose was given to me nearly a year ago as n the trial) and my children both teens neither jabbed.
My DH has a mild headache that’s it and only did an lft as I asked him to or he wouldn’t have bothered.
So vaccines seem to be working in our house

CV will just keep re infecting people, regardless of antibodies

Agreed, it's not going away. What we really need to do is invest massively and expand our healthcare system so that it can cope with the increased levels of illness caused by Covid in the future plus long covid. We need to be able to cope with thousands of hospitalisations a day during 'peak covid' periods, without this impacting other care and without having to lockdown to stop the spread. How we pay for that I don't know...it's all such a mess...

@jasjas1973 the only argument for putting restrictions back are if the hospitalisations and deaths explode. They aren’t. It’s NOT about number of cases ffs.

The Netherlands panicked and their vaccinations rates are not as high as ours.

@jasjas1973 so you honestly just think we will have restrictions forever as it will keep reinfecting?

The fanny flutters some will get on here over the next year as we get the inevitable clickbait news stories of potential new novel viruses. We got them multiple times a year before but after this one I expect it about once a week.

@jasjas1973 so you honestly just think we will have restrictions forever as it will keep reinfecting

Well based on current evidence that’s what appears to happen.

@sashagabadon
www.diabetes.co.uk/news/2021/may/researchers-conclude-covid-19-is-a-vascular-disease-not-respiratory.html

@Blessex Its not just serious illness, economies can't function well with millions ill or self isolating esp in health settings.

Israel's are higher and with a vaxx arguable more effective.

[quote ArseInTheCoOpWindow]**@jasjas1973 I disagree. Restrictions won’t be put back

Headlines today saying Sage talking about restrictions to return 1st week of August.[/quote]
Luckily Sage don't have the power to do that.

@jasjas1973 that’s why on 16 Aug the self isolation stops.

@santanddec

CV will just keep re infecting people, regardless of antibodies

Agreed, it's not going away. What we really need to do is invest massively and expand our healthcare system so that it can cope with the increased levels of illness caused by Covid in the future plus long covid. We need to be able to cope with thousands of hospitalisations a day during 'peak covid' periods, without this impacting other care and without having to lockdown to stop the spread. How we pay for that I don't know...it's all such a mess...

It's not just a matter of money. Doctors and nurses take several years to train. We've had decades of not training enough. Not helped by the doctors union, at one time, objecting to increasing training places.

We can throw billions at the NHS, but none of us want to be "treated" by unqualified/inexperienced staff.

@Tuba437 No real need to be rude is there?

Yes i do, well not forever but until 2nd Gen vaccines are introduced so vacines stop infection, as they do for Polio or Smallpox (exc the v small % where the vaxx isn't effective)

I think this will be soon, the miracle of current vaxx is amazing, but you can bet your last dollor companies aren't resting on their laurals.

Reinfections in the time frame observable so far are rare, even with new variants.

[quote Tuba437]@jasjas1973 so you honestly just think we will have restrictions forever as it will keep reinfecting?

The fanny flutters some will get on here over the next year as we get the inevitable clickbait news stories of potential new novel viruses. We got them multiple times a year before but after this one I expect it about once a week.[/quote]
There are many CV and CEV people their friends and fsmily who don't have the privilege of not continuing to take this virus seriously @Tuba437

Which other novel viruses are you talking about? Links please.

I think this will be soon

It may or may not be. I suspect high numbers of people won’t be putting their lives on hold any further for this though.

Increasing training places is not simple. You need spaces for them to train and people to train them. There are a finite number of F1 positions that can be made as otherwise the junior doctors don't get a chance to practice. That's why doctors were against a massive increase )there has been some as new medical schools have opened in areas with less doctors).
No clue what the solution is short term. But piling the hospitals high with COVID patients again is certainly not it. The staff are tired, demoralised and stressed.

I don’t know whether any of you follow Mac n chise on Twitter. He/ she seems a genuine knowledgeable sort on all things epidemiology. Anyway he/ she had a thread where they were saying the vaccines were working better than expected, boosters would not be necessary except for elderly/ vulnerable and a thread saying that AZ in particular could give life long immunity due to T cells and immunity memory. I didn’t understand it fully but it was worth reading ( if you search for the Twitter account)

@TheKeatingFive

Reinfections in the time frame observable so far are rare, even with new variants.

93% of brits have CV antibodies, via vaxx and natural, yet infection rates super hi. As they are in India.

AZ is though to be at around 50% effective at stopping re infection.

Sorry mean Israel!