I understand why people are against vaccine passports but...

[User135644]

I understand why people are against vaccine passports, but a lot of those most vocal against it are the usual crowd who have been anti-lockdown and anti-mask throughout (and often anti-vaccine). They won't accept vaccine passports but will be the first to complain if and when nightclubs are forced to close again due to the impact of the virus which without vaccines would already be a lot worse with the Delta variant.

They can't always have it both ways.

@Nat6999 Or a religious employer not employing a woman on the basis she has had an abortion or takes hormonal contraception.

Quick question. If you are against any "restriction" on unvaccinated people, do you agree that your borders should be open to all and sundry from other countries without any vaccine requirement?

Right now, I cannot travel to England without quarantine, because my two Pfizer vaccines were administered in Canada. Only vaccines given by the NHS count.

It seems to me that a veritable patchwork of requirements are in our future. It won't be fun.

I for one do not buy into the comparisons to totalitarian states, past or present. Nor do I believe for one instant that the UK governments want to control individual citizens.

@userperuser

If this doesn’t make you realise something is very wrong then nothing will.

I can't understand why so many people can't see this, all you and your children's freedoms are slowly getting whipped away

@mog27

I thought vaccine passports for pubs and clubs was just a conspiracy theory that the tin foil hat brigade spouted and would never happen?

more like the truth sayers ey

@LoveFall

Quick question. If you are against any "restriction" on unvaccinated people, do you agree that your borders should be open to all and sundry from other countries without any vaccine requirement?

Right now, I cannot travel to England without quarantine, because my two Pfizer vaccines were administered in Canada. Only vaccines given by the NHS count.

It seems to me that a veritable patchwork of requirements are in our future. It won't be fun.

I for one do not buy into the comparisons to totalitarian states, past or present. Nor do I believe for one instant that the UK governments want to control individual citizens.

Speaking only for myself, I think it depends on the situation in the destination country. For a country like Australia where they're kept cases very low, then some kind of vaccination/test/quarantine requirement is at least logically defensible. For countries like the US or UK, I honestly don't see the point. Even if all borders were thrown wide open tomorrow, cases linked to foreign travelers would be a drop in the bucket compared to local transmission. But either way, I'm more concerned about citizens' rights in their own countries than I am about anyone's ability to visit foreign (to them) countries.

Perhaps my perspective is skewed by my own circumstances. DH is a British subject who came to Canada decades ago. He is also a Canadian citizen.

We are both double jabbed.

We have very close family in the UK including two grandchildren. As we get older, we have visited every spring for about a month. Because of the pandemic we have not seen them for over two years.

It feels like we may never see them again. This is hard.

I would gladly accept a vaccine passport if it renewed our freedom to travel.

Frankly, Britain does not feel foreign to us, especially DH who was born and raised near London and served in the Royal Navy. It feels part of our world.

What sort of freedoms will be taken away?

If I have to carry an ID card what is the negative impact on me?

Please spell it out kindly as I don't understand the problem. There's already cctv everywhere. My phone probably tells various companies where I am when I carry it about. I have nothing to hide when I go to the shops or gym or whatever. If I have to carry a card and swipe in to these places, so what?

@G5000

I don't get it. I of course understand that UK so-called lockdown was very mild compared to many other countries. But still. If your options are either proof of vaccination status/testing or closing down everything for everybody - how is the former worse and more restrictive? If everybody needs to sit at home, all schools, shops, restaurants etc etc closed - that's better and not eroding freedoms? Or what's their solution to get and keep this situation somewhat under control?

You realise he didn’t say vaccination passport AND testing. He said vaccination passport ONLY will be mandated. As though Covid will check your App before infecting you.

@Sunnyfreezesushi

They are already doing Covid passports in Switzerland, a country with absolute democracy and eg Denmark. These are socially minded forward thinking countries. There is nothing to be scared of except this virus dominating our lives and killing vulnerable people. Even France are going to do it and they are very vocal about their rights.

Can you explain how an app will stop Covid infecting you? Pretty certain the App doesn’t have super powers and that Covid doesn’t care about your passport.

@leafyygreens

To use my example from upthread, it's possible that excluding HIV positive people from certain activities would prevent then infecting others with HIV. This is a vaguely plausible hypothesis but I have no idea if it's true.

@Chessie678

It is now illegal to have unprotected sex with someone if you haven't told them you are HIV+. You could argue this is unfair and discriminatory, and no one should be forced to disclose a medical condition in order to take part in a normal activity that others do.

Restrictions and laws need to be proportional to the situation which they apply. I don't see how domestic COVID passports (to include negative tests as an alternative to vaccination) are disproportionate to the risk of coronavirus transmission, and this feeling is echoed in many other countries worldwide.

For me the point is domestic COVID passports do not include negative testing as an alternative to vaccinations. The removal of this alternative leaves people no option.

eggman007

For me, the rights of individuals, whilst obviously important, need to be eclipsed by the greater good in a situation such as this. This pandemic is the ultimate test of teamwork and we're clearly pretty shit at it in this country

I can see the flaws and imperfections here but surely the basic logic behind vaccine/immunity passports is blindingly obvious

Obviously there would need to be exemptions

Unfortunately teamwork meant just slinging millions on UC and if you have a bad reaction to vaccines then you aren’t going to work again.

For someone who isn’t vaccinated they are much more at risk from a vaccinated person than an unvaccinated one who has had the virus within the last 12 months

As I said on another platform last night, mandated Covid passports will just add another stream of income to the criminals who will help people evade this mandate. That will really protect everyone🤔

Does anyone actually believe nightclubs would be allowed to stay open when the Autumn Covid surge arrives with or without vaccine passports.

To answer the question about International travel. France being dark amber tells you the passports make NO DIFFERENCE. Our Govt in common with most others is changing the rules on quarantine
from day to day regardless of vaccination status and uptake. They will continue to do this as long as there is public appetite for "othering" - in this case foreigners, holiday makers and anyone with family overseas.

The UK currently has one of the highest case rates in the World despite the highest adult vaccine uptake. The only point of closing borders is so we don't reflect on this fact.

Dd is 16, she is furious with this change having immediately realised that her life will be curtailed when she turns 18. She feels coerced and that she has lost her right to choose.

Personally, I feel it's disgusting (double jabbed, following the rules) and will be avoiding these places. I will be writing to my useless tory mp later today to express my concerns, using some of the very good points up thread.
We elect a government to manage the infrastructure of the country, not people. I don't want or need to be managed let alone micromanage in my life. My body, my choice, my freedom to choose. If I lose that then what's left?

Why is it the young being target, and by implication, put in the firing line for blame for rising cases?

Uptake amongst younger age groups has been good, and it's not that long since they have even had the chance to get their jabs. Older age groups have had far longer and there are still large numbers of those that aren't fully jabbed yet

Sky news trying get wider definition today what if its not just clubs.
Anyone think its odd this announced I parliament and to the public 10mins before press conference, the clubs dident know.
Seemed shock to everyone.

Doesn't sick a big change mean debate and vote in parliament or it makes mockery of parliament.
Can we write to speaker of the house.
The government break up for summer recess soon as surely mandated means legislative has to be voted to pass unless comes under umbrella if the coronavirus act.

@redtshirt50

I think it's really really really wrong, and it's happening all over the world.

I feel sorry for the 17-year-olds too who are not eligible for the vaccines until they're 18, so will be banned from nightclubs for 12 weeks while they wait to be double vaxxed with a vaccine they don't even need and shouldn't have to get if they don't want to.

This is incorrect I think They announced you can get vaccine 3 months early and it's only 8 weeks between doses so fits fine

3asAbird the announcement is currently just a floated proposal. It would indeed need legislation and Parliamentary approval.

No coincidence that Boris, Javid and Sunak are all in self-imposed isolation well away from Parliament while it is announced.

It's intriguing that the proposal is for indoor crowded venues and yet Boris specifically mentioned night clubs. The media have also focused on this scenario.

It's almost as if the government want our attention focused on something that is viewed as hedonistic and of no value to much of the Conservative voter base.

I wonder if posters on here and the wider public would feel differently if the focus was on theatres, conferences, large church services, public lectures etc.

Exactly - put the focus, and blame, on irresponsible young people…

It’s outrageous

@EnidSpyton

This is a very slippery slope. The thin end of the wedge. Essentially forcing people into having a vaccine by restricting their movement and choices if they don’t have it is akin to living in a totalitarian dictatorship.

The vaccine is not risk free to younger people. For young healthy people the risks of COVID do not necessarily outweigh the risks of the vaccine. I don’t trust the government or their scientific advisors as far as I could throw them. The amount of governmental lying, back-pedalling and gaslighting that’s gone on during this pandemic, not to mention the backhanders to Boris and co’s mates to set up covid related money making schemes, should be enough to make anyone stop and question. The vaccine is being presented as a magic bullet out of this pandemic when it couldn’t be further from the truth - it doesn’t stop you transmitting or catching covid, just being severely ill with it - but because the government has failed on all fronts to successfully manage our way out of this through any other means, they’re touting the vaccine as the be all and end all and ensuring the media is bleating the same message. He who pays the piper plays the tune. Now it’s all going to be people who don’t have the vaccine’s fault if things get out of control again - see the Guardian’s latest missive from ‘an NHS doctor’ (yeah right) basically saying the people in hospital severely ill with covid are all stupid vaccine deniers who know they’ve been stupid now and wish they’d made different decisions (one can’t help wondering whether doctors feel the same about covid sufferers who are severely ill due to lifestyle induced underlying illnesses or conditions?) - and the government can therefore wash their hands of all responsibility.

What depresses me is how few people see this for what it really is. Mass coercion and mass control. No one should be forced to put anything in their body that they don’t want in it. Our most fundamental human right is the freedom to choose what happens to our bodies. If we lose that then we’ve got far greater problems to worry about than covid. People need to step back and see the bigger picture here. This is not just about the vaccine. It’s about the government testing how far they can erode our rights without us complaining by using fear as a distraction. Sadly it seems we’re tottering very close to the cliff edge at the moment and most people don’t even seem to have noticed we’re about to take a very nasty fall onto the rocks below. A vaccine passport sounds innocuous until suddenly you can’t leave the country because your papers aren’t in order. Honestly, so many of you who think this is no big deal need to read up on the 1930s in Nazi Germany. They didn’t know what was coming either.

Exactly, couldn't agree more.

@VariantL1130

It's intriguing that the proposal is for indoor crowded venues and yet Boris specifically mentioned night clubs. The media have also focused on this scenario.

It's almost as if the government want our attention focused on something that is viewed as hedonistic and of no value to much of the Conservative voter base.

I wonder if posters on here and the wider public would feel differently if the focus was on theatres, conferences, large church services, public lectures etc.

BBC said theatres last night.

Clubs could change who their target audience is and only open to 16 and below who won't be restricted. They aren't being offered it unless cev as it's not beneficial for young people.

I’m not wearing a mask now and I don’t think lockdowns are the answer, however I do think vaccine passports are the way to go.

Why is it the young being target, and by implication, put in the firing line for blame for rising cases?

Happened a lot last year, uni students getting blamed for going to uni, children being blamed for meeting up outdoors etc