France pulls out the big guns!

[NotPregnantJustChubs]

I live in France and Macron has just made a speech saying that from the end of July, vaccination or a negative test is going to be compulsory for cultural and entertainment venues. From August, it’ll be compulsory for cafes and restaurants too. This applies to all 12+.

PCR tests will become paid as of September, to encourage vaccination.

I’m already vaccinated, thankfully, and I do think it’s necessary to contain the delta variant. But wowza, I’m waiting to hear the backlash in the morning. Macron is up for reelection next year as well, they must be very desperate to contain this…

@SinkGirl I'm curious about that too. I'm sure people who can't wear one exist, even if only a tiny number, but you just don't see them out and about- everyone wears a mask. So maybe those people choose to stay at home.

I would wonder if the mask issue at school could be a question of social issues- ie if everyone wears a mask, the few children who really hate them will fall in line under peer pressure, and conversely if a couple of children are allowed to not wear them, more and more children insist they can't either.

I can only speak from my experience but, truly, it's incredibly rare to see someone without a mask when out and about- and I don't recall ever seeing someone in a shop without one, since they were mandated.

My tween hates wearing the mask but he’ll do it so as not to look different...

I agree that a lot of people in the U.K. take the piss, but I do worry about an environment where people insist there are no people not wearing a mask. Social conditioning wouldn’t work on children like mine - they wouldn’t notice that others are wearing one, you can’t explain to them what masks are or what Covid is, or bribe them even. So where are those children? Clearly France doesn’t just have no profoundly autistic people in it, which suggests they can’t leave their home, and after struggling through lockdowns with my twins at home over the last year I worry about those children and their parents.

The number of Brits taking the piss is obviously an issue, but it’s also not acceptable for those with certain disabilities to be confined to their homes for over a year.

I agree that it is not an exaggeration to say that everyone wears a mask in France, no exceptions.

Autism is staggeringly rare here. I have 2 neices/nephews with autism in the UK but know of no French children with it. I do have a friend with a down syndrome son, he wears a mask like everyone else.

I don't think it is because we lock people away either. There's plenty of provision for people with special needs, but they simply follow the same rules as everyone else. You wouldn't allow SN children to walk around with no clothes on even if that is what the wanted.

Well in the case of yellow fever if you want to be continue to be employed in certain lines of work the vaccine continued to be mandatory for certain roles, even in the UK

I don't mean to nitpick but this is news to me, do you have a source for this? Why would someone need a yellow fever vaccination for a role in the UK?

Sinkgirl - I'm 100% not exaggerating. Everyone in France wears a mask (only indoors now, since the rule was relaxed and masks are no longer necessary outdoors). I work in a school with over 1000 pupils and every single one wears a mask (they bring a spare and it's changed at lunchtime). Teachers too - I learnt to make my voice louder to compensate for the mask!
People are used to them and it's second nature now to grab a mask and put it on.
I won't get started on the idiots with 'magic noses' hanging out, however...we certainly do have those!

Of course there will always be exceptions but yes in the UK we argue about masks, vaccines, rules being laws or just guidance, passport alternatives to vaccines.... then it's apparently everyone's else's fault when cases go up

Autism is staggeringly rare here. I have 2 neices/nephews with autism in the UK but know of no French children with it.

It’s not staggeringly rare there at all. France is just letting autistic people down very badly.

A quote from the United Nations about the treatment of autistic children In France,

The UN found that the majority of children with autism do not have access to mainstream education and many “are still offered inefficient psychoanalytical therapies, overmedication and placement in psychiatric hospitals and institutions”. Parents who oppose the institutionalisation of their children “are intimidated and threatened and, in some cases, lose custody of their children”.

@SupermanWithTheGreyHair

Autism is staggeringly rare here. I have 2 neices/nephews with autism in the UK but know of no French children with it.

It’s not staggeringly rare there at all. France is just letting autistic people down very badly.

A quote from the United Nations about the treatment of autistic children In France,

The UN found that the majority of children with autism do not have access to mainstream education and many “are still offered inefficient psychoanalytical therapies, overmedication and placement in psychiatric hospitals and institutions”. Parents who oppose the institutionalisation of their children “are intimidated and threatened and, in some cases, lose custody of their children”.

That’s very sad

I don’t think it’s a good way to go and no I doubt it’s staggeringly rare, more these other issues

@Frenchfancy

I agree that it is not an exaggeration to say that everyone wears a mask in France, no exceptions.

Autism is staggeringly rare here. I have 2 neices/nephews with autism in the UK but know of no French children with it. I do have a friend with a down syndrome son, he wears a mask like everyone else.

I don't think it is because we lock people away either. There's plenty of provision for people with special needs, but they simply follow the same rules as everyone else. You wouldn't allow SN children to walk around with no clothes on even if that is what the wanted.

Sorry, I need to compose myself here… did you actually just say the things you said?

Autism is not “staggeringly rare” in France. How would that even be the case?

You’re likening me letting my disabled children leave the house without a mask to letting them leave the house naked? You think my childrens’ inability to wear a mask is because they don’t want to “follow the rules like everyone else”?

Please explain to me how you would get a child with the understanding of a 0-11 month old and sensory issues to leave a piece of fabric or paper on their face when they have no concept of masks or Covid and can’t be reasoned with or bribed because they don’t understand?

I can’t believe there are people living on this planet who are so ignorant of disability.

@MaxNormal

Well in the case of yellow fever if you want to be continue to be employed in certain lines of work the vaccine continued to be mandatory for certain roles, even in the UK

I don't mean to nitpick but this is news to me, do you have a source for this? Why would someone need a yellow fever vaccination for a role in the UK?

Certain roles in the travel industry, logistics industry and aviation (especially long haul flying) sometimes require the employee to be able travel to somewhere “exotic” at very short notice.

I know of one such role/job, UK based, wherever you had to confirm your yellow fever vaccination was valid every time you reported for work.

Sinkgirl I bet that was a hard read

I feel very sorry for autistic children in France

But again that would be vaccine or if necessary an exemption. It's also a tiny proportion of people, and they'd have been aware of these criteria before undertaking the role.
It does not compare with the current situation at all.

@MaxNormal

But again that would be vaccine or if necessary an exemption. It's also a tiny proportion of people, and they'd have been aware of these criteria before undertaking the role. It does not compare with the current situation at all.

TBH I’ve lost track of where you are going with this or what you are trying to prove.

You queried/ seemed to be doubtful as to whether whether UK companies can demand people are vaccinated..well some certainly do ( and to for completeness at one travel company there where absolutely no exemptions and the tiny minority was several thousand employees).

As an aside aren’t many laboratory workers in the UK required to be vaccinated for certain diseases?

Point being I guess is actions/ inactions can have consequences.

TBH being older than many here I survived the 1960s school regime off being vaccinated for a whole alphabet soup of conditions and in my working years had to keep many vaccinations current ( e.g. Tetanus, Cholera, latterly Yellow Fever) so whilst I understand provision needs to be made for those who for medical reason cannot be vaccinated I can’t really get onboard with a lot of the angst I’m hearing from some who simply seem to be outraged at the just thought of being vaccinated.

@MarshaBradyo

Sinkgirl I bet that was a hard read

I feel very sorry for autistic children in France

No, it was very enlightening - here’s us struggling when all we need to do is simply follow the rules like everyone else.

🙄

I feel sorry for disabled people in any country where people proudly talk about the fact that everyone wears a mask and there are no exemptions. And especially where people say any given disability is rare. It just means there are huge numbers of disabled children and adults shut away from society completely. Add in the insinuation that these people just don’t want to follow the rules and you get a good sense of attitudes towards disability.

It’s really upsetting.

Sinkgirl I agree

@TheKeatingFive

Spare a thought for the Irish, who aren’t even allowed to use testing to access the inside of a pub/restaurant and where the under 30s have even been offered a vax yet.

That's crazy that you know no under 30s that have been offered the vaccine yet! Most of the under 30s I know have had at least one dose or they have had the j&j vaccine. There must be huge regional differences? Everyone here was calling the GP and getting vaccinated in their vaccine clinics. Then there are health care workers too who have been vaccinated for months at this stage.

It's a shame that some people will have to sit outside for a few more weeks, myself included having only had 1 vaccine a few weeks ago but it is hardly the end of the world is it? All over 16s will be vaccinated by the end of Sept, it's literally 2.5 months away. You wouldn't be asking people to light a candle for you!

TB tests and sputum samples are required to enter the UK for citizens of certain countries. Nearly 30 of them.

That's crazy that you know no under 30s that have been offered the vaccine yet! Most of the under 30s I know have had at least one dose or they have had the j&j vaccine.

Nope. I know many who’ve spent hours ringing pharmacies to no avail though.

I don’t actually have an issue with limitations, but to offer no testing option and before many have even had the opportunity to get a vaccine is utterly wrong.

Mind you Fianna Fáil seem hell bent on obliterating themselves and I for one will not be sorry to see them sink like a stone in the next election.

I feel sorry for disabled people in any country where people proudly talk about the fact that everyone wears a mask and there are no exemptions. And especially where people say any given disability is rare. It just means there are huge numbers of disabled children and adults shut away from society completely.

I’m not sure you can draw any conclusion about people being shut away from the reported high compliance with mask wearing (where/when required). It could quite simply mean “disabled” children and adults are out and about in the community and are managing to do so wearing masks.

I have been wondering the same - according to MN at least, it seems that every second person in the UK is 'unable' to wear a mask and has an exemption and nobody is allowed to ask why someone else is not wearing a mask.
Of course, there must be people here as well who genuinely cannot wear masks, but I'm starting to think that the real number is so tiny that I simply haven't encountered them. And that a large part of those in the UK who claim to be exempt are taking the piss.

I still remember one maskwearing thread on MN where a poster proudly declared that she has an exemption because she cannot wear a mask, but she still does. Well great, but if you can wear a mask, you are not exempt because you cannot, are you?

@notimagain

I feel sorry for disabled people in any country where people proudly talk about the fact that everyone wears a mask and there are no exemptions. And especially where people say any given disability is rare. It just means there are huge numbers of disabled children and adults shut away from society completely.

I’m not sure you can draw any conclusion about people being shut away from the reported high compliance with mask wearing (where/when required). It could quite simply mean “disabled” children and adults are out and about in the community and are managing to do so wearing masks.

FFS. I have explicitly been talking about the disabled people who cannot wear masks. It’s simply not possible that such people do not exist in France - since I have two such children I know many others via their school, support groups etc.

And I’m not sure why you felt the need to put scare quotes around the world disabled?

@notimagain

I feel sorry for disabled people in any country where people proudly talk about the fact that everyone wears a mask and there are no exemptions. And especially where people say any given disability is rare. It just means there are huge numbers of disabled children and adults shut away from society completely.

I’m not sure you can draw any conclusion about people being shut away from the reported high compliance with mask wearing (where/when required). It could quite simply mean “disabled” children and adults are out and about in the community and are managing to do so wearing masks.

Why “disabled”?

I'd look at the care of autistic people in the UK before having a go at France.
Numbers being sectioned and then locked up for years is a national scandal and increasing, since it was first bought to governments attention in 2012.

As a parent I know where I’d rather be. Makes me sad to think children are thought of as “disabled” and everyone needs to do as wanted by adults whether they find it very difficult or not.