France pulls out the big guns!

[NotPregnantJustChubs]

I live in France and Macron has just made a speech saying that from the end of July, vaccination or a negative test is going to be compulsory for cultural and entertainment venues. From August, it’ll be compulsory for cafes and restaurants too. This applies to all 12+.

PCR tests will become paid as of September, to encourage vaccination.

I’m already vaccinated, thankfully, and I do think it’s necessary to contain the delta variant. But wowza, I’m waiting to hear the backlash in the morning. Macron is up for reelection next year as well, they must be very desperate to contain this…

But I believe taking away people’s choices, essentially making some people second class citizens isn’t the way to go.

Speaking as a French resident dare I point out pretty much the only insight we have into the French plans so far are the broad brush statements Mr Macron’s made in his speech.

We’re getting a trickle of extra info now but we won’t get the full details until it’s presented for debate by the legislators..it’s quite possible there will be a safety net or support of some sort, e.g free testing, for those in genuine in need.

You sure as heck won’t be getting the full picture of the proposed plan from the media and certainly not the UK media so just perhaps it might be worth waiting a few days before boarding the outrage bus.

You do not HAVE to have the vaccine. You just can't do certain things if you don't. Like many other things in life.

And people that can't have it? Just tough shit?

and certainly not the UK media

I haven’t heard anything on it anyway here

Just going by what op and others say is happening

@notimagain - thanks, that is worth remembering.

You need to understand the context. First, as FrenchFancy says above, several vaccines are already mandatory in France. This is not a new concept. Or similarly, I need to get a medical exam and produce a doctor's note each time I want to for example join a running club or participate in a race. Don't want the government deciding over my body and telling me what to do - then I just can't go.

Also, France is the land of medical exemptions - if your doctor agrees that you have such a needle phobia that you really can't be vaccinated, I'm sure you'll get a prescription for free tests. But I agree that taxpayer should not be paying for someone who simply prefers not to do their part to get us out of this pandemic but wants to go to a cafe.

And I think you also have to understand how severe the restrictions were here at some point. Going back to that, because some people were simply sitting on their arses and could not be bothered to book their appointment, is not an option for the majority of French want to think about.

I haven't seen my daughter or my mother in another country for over a year now and likely won't till 2022, despite all of us being double vaxxed. When travel eventually opens up, it is quite likely I will be banned from visiting them bcos the UK will be a travel pariah for most countries. So yes, tough shit for vaccine refusers. Life is unfair in a pandemic, and especially unfair for those of us who have taken the vaccine.

I note all the French residents on here are in favour of this move. It won't happen in the UK anyway.

There's a thread running this morning from an OP who is struggling financially. They can't afford their private let, and are struggling to get priority housing from the council.

It is being suggested that she can't afford to be a student at the moment and needs to prioritise working and making an income. It is not being suggested that the council just find her a house, or that the LA just find her free childcare. Does that impede her right to an education, perhaps?

In my eyes, that's similar to it being asked for the Government to just find money to continue to test millions of people for free.

Her choice - continue to struggle, find cheaper property, delay studies and find work, maximise her husbands income.

In this case, the choice - get vaccinated (for free), pay for testing, avoid situations where testing is required.

Life is all about choices. Often choices we don't like having to make.

@MaxNormal

You do not HAVE to have the vaccine. You just can't do certain things if you don't. Like many other things in life.

And people that can't have it? Just tough shit?

I don't believe anyone is arguing against medical exemptions.

So yes, tough shit for vaccine refusers.

Well, there we have it.

People don't have health anxiety over smart trousers. They don't have a phobia about putting on neat shoes. They don't worry about the long term effects of wearing a shirt.

They do actually, and my adult DSS with ASD is one of them. I have seen him cause himself very serious injuries around the issue of clothes 'codes'.

Many of his 'choices', including those involving education, healthcare, food, relationships, socialising and clothing, have been removed from him by his having ASD in our particular society.

Isn’t there a medical exemption? A proper one, not a U.K. one.

The thing about choice is that we’re in the middle of a global pandemic. Nobody gets exactly what they want without compromise somewhere and going back to pre pandemic now isn’t an option. If you don’t restrict things to vaccinated only, then you need restrictions on what opens or you need strong border restrictions and a zero covid strategy.

@notimagain

Good reminder. I think many of us are thinking along the lines of if (when?) the UK implement similar, as it seems many are going along these lines.

@KatharinaRosalie

Very much agree with that post.

I'm sure you'll get a prescription for free tests. But I agree that taxpayer should not be paying for someone who simply prefers not to do their part to get us out of this pandemic but wants to go to a cafe

Yep, it had been announced (by Oliver Veran?) several days or even weeks prior to Mr Macron’s announcement that free testing for recreational purposes was going to have to end this autumn for exactly the sort of reasons you mention:

“Going to the football/rugby….better get a (free) test”
“Going to a night club…better get a (free) test”

That simply isn’t sustainable.

Yes, there we have it. Those with phobias, allergies and genuine reasons to not take the vaccine will get medical exemptions anyway.

(Apologies for the formatting, really not getting it right on this mobile…)

I don't believe anyone is arguing against medical exemptions

Throughout this whole shit-show, the only place that I've seen medical exemptions mooted so far are in the Gulf countries. I've been waiting and waiting to hear about any exemptions in the UK and EU. Nothing. My doctor confirms there has been zero mention or guidance either.
It's like mental torture. And I have had people - on here - say to me tough shit and we all have to make sacrifices in a pandemic.

@MareofBeasttown

I haven't seen my daughter or my mother in another country for over a year now and likely won't till 2022, despite all of us being double vaxxed. When travel eventually opens up, it is quite likely I will be banned from visiting them bcos the UK will be a travel pariah for most countries. So yes, tough shit for vaccine refusers. Life is unfair in a pandemic, and especially unfair for those of us who have taken the vaccine.

I note all the French residents on here are in favour of this move. It won't happen in the UK anyway.

I'm a French resident (20 years and I'm totally against it. Most of my friends (French) are too.

In France you need a medical certificate to be off work from the first day. No self certification. I suffer from migraines. I know when I have a migraine yet I have to call out a Dr to my home (can't move) every time to get signed off work.

Things are incredibly medicalised in France. Epidurals are seem to be the norm when giving birth. There is no "birth plan".
You go to a Dr and come out with a prescription for 4 different medicines (Ive started telling the pharmacy only to give me the ones I know I'll use).

If you only know France from a tourist point of view then you won't understand.

We have to return to work in the office half time now. Except for people with a medical certificate. It will be the same for the vaccine.

Sorry. But I have been told it is my fault for choosing to live in another country from my mother ( never mind that I could not have predicted a pandemic when the WHO did not). I have reached my limit with vaccine refusers and I do not think I am alone in this. France clearly has too.

@MaxNormal

I don't believe anyone is arguing against medical exemptions

Throughout this whole shit-show, the only place that I've seen medical exemptions mooted so far are in the Gulf countries. I've been waiting and waiting to hear about any exemptions in the UK and EU. Nothing. My doctor confirms there has been zero mention or guidance either.
It's like mental torture. And I have had people - on here - say to me tough shit and we all have to make sacrifices in a pandemic.

I'm not sure where you live, but are you saying there are no medical exemptions there?

Spare a thought for the Irish, who aren’t even allowed to use testing to access the inside of a pub/restaurant and where the under 30s have even been offered a vax yet.

@VoiceFaceArse

Governments absorb the costs and find ways of doing things that suit them. So they need to do that. In 18 months they’ve found the money to produce millions of vaccines, pay for the research involved in that, worked out the logistics, produced tests, etc. I’m sure they’re capable of doing similar, of course if they don’t want to, they’ll make people believe it’s not possible.

Desperation to control the pandemic and have the vaccine is no reason to stamp over people’s choices.

There is no easy answer. But I believe taking away people’s choices, essentially making some people second class citizens isn’t the way to go.

I say that as someone who can easily afford whatever the cost of a multiple tests per week will be. My partner is vaccinated and is equally appalled at what France are doing. We both very much hope this doesn’t happen in the UK.

People need to see this for what it is.

It’s not just about the cost - again, how do you propose they find the testing capacity for millions of additional free tests? If the tests remained free for leisure purposes and the number of vaccinated people remained where it was, there’d be millions of people wanting additional tests daily. How do you propose they process these tests?

They’re not taking away choices - they have choices. They have mandatory childhood vaccines and mandatory vaccines for healthcare workers - they don’t have a choice for those. Here they do.

I'm not sure where you live, but are you saying there are no medical exemptions there?

I am talking specifically about medical exemptions related to covid. Although as the whole covid pass thing is on-again-off-again, there's not enough detail to actually work with so it's just a massively months-long limbo of stress.

Btw - and it's not just you - I hate the way the discussion here always seems to include digs, put-downs, passive-aggressive smileys and the like. This is my real life, my real stress and fear. I don't see why people have to be so shitty.

I suppose at least I don't live in Ireland who have gone full discrimination.

I suppose at least I don't live in Ireland who have gone full discrimination.

I hope there’s a legal challenge