Double jabbed - how safe do you feel?

[PuzzledObserver]

Coverage in the press today about advice to employers being slimmed down - basically it will be up to them to do their own risk assessments and decide on policy in their premises. Also coverage (and a thread already) about Govt plans to make Covid passports compulsory for access to pubs, clubs and restaurants from the Autumn - to encourage take-up of vaccines among the young.

If you are double-jabbed - how safe do you feel and are there things you will still not do?

I am double-jabbed on top of having had Covid. I am happy to meet with small groups of people indoors, but keeping a reasonable distance. I will continue to avoid crowded and cramped places, and to wear a mask on public transport and in shops. The mask is more to protect others in the unlikely event that I am infected.

My logic is that Covid has more chance of overcoming my immunity if I’m exposed to a lot of it all at once, e.g. the crowded stuffy indoor setting, so that is to be avoided. Whereas a ‘glancing blow’ of Covid from a short exposure is unlikely to overcome my immunity. If anything, it will remind my immune system of who the enemy is, and strengthen it.

Most of them while you can.

@TakemedowntoPotatoCity

Bollocks I've just tested positive :( double jabbed with AZ. I think Pfizer is a lot better against these new variants. When will this ever end ?

Jury is still out on that actually.

John Murdoch-Burn put up an interesting chart comparing effectiveness in UK, Canada and Israel the other day. It had data for Pfizer, AZ and a bit for Moderna. And how Alpha compared to Delta.

Whats interesting is AZ appears to be arguably holding up better than Pfizer after one dose for Delta. And AZ generally seems positive in terms of hospitalisations.

On the face of it Pfizer looks better but the Israel data seems to show its not as good at Delta and may reflect concerns about immunity starting to wane too. Israel's vaccine schedule was also set at 4 weeks rather than the UK's 12 which may yet prove to be more optimal.

Also there is an inherent flaw in the data in the uk in that there is no adjustment or reference to age. Pfizer was largely given to older groups but then subsequently then given to younger ones. So you might get some real distortion in how well Pfizer appears to be doing. We know younger people have a better immune response with the vaccine than older people, but not only that, the eldest may have adjusted behaviour and more likely to shield / stay home.

Meanwhile AZ was given to 40 - 60 year olds. This age group is more vulnerable than the youngest but less vulnerable than the oldest HOWEVER the majority are still working age and therefore more likely to be unable to shelter / stay home or may have young unvacinated adults or children in the house which would affect what the data might show because of heightened exposure.

This therefore does not mean pfizer is more effective than az in the real world. It could mean the risk profile of those getting AZ and Pfizer in the UK is fundamentally different and if you compare different age groups you aren't comparing like for like populations fairly.

My point being here: be careful about what you think the data about Pfizer v AZ is showing, pull it appear and think about reasons why it might not be as comparible as you think. Both are highly effective. In terms of one being 'better' than the other, its very very difficult to judge. What we don't know yet may prove incredibly important and undoubtedly being vaccinated with anything is preferable to nothing. We may find that immunity lasts for longer for one jab or that one jab performs particularly well against emerging variants thus giving it perhaps an unexpected advantage. We don't know.

So I'd urge caution over comments like this. Its not necessarily as straightforward as that. A little critical thinking is required.

@pyjamams13

Yup Double jabbed. Not worried in the slightest, never was in the first place though. got double jabbed as thought would need it to go on holiday but has being pointless.

Same for us. Not that our holidays worked out either...

I'm not fearful of catching covid at all, nor was I before my vaccinations. We're under 50 so the odds of dying from covid are small. I'm more scared of getting cancer than covid.

Appreciate that everyone needs to mitigate their own level of risk but having had one attempted suicide amongst friends and family and a young person self-harming in the last six months, there are broader issues to living with continued restrictions beyond the covid numbers.

My friend in his 40s is double jabbed. He caught Covid this week and has been very unwell.

My office has a number of us in a very small office, seats touching back to back, air con blowing recycled indoor air, no screens or mitigations.

I don't feel safe at all. I'm nearly 50, not old enough for a booster, with two children at secondaries in high risk areas where kids are sent home daily with positive tests.

@TakemedowntoPotatoCity

Bollocks I've just tested positive :( double jabbed with AZ. I think Pfizer is a lot better against these new variants. When will this ever end ?

I'm double jabbed with Pfizer but I still tested positive on Friday. Hope you don't feel too bad with it

@LibbyL92

I’m doubled jabbed. Have been since 22nd May.

I went to a music festival on the weekend of 19th June. Download festival. It was a government pilot to see how Covid spreads without any social distancing.

I was in a crowd of 10k watching live music. Sharing drinks, hugging, kissing, sharing cigarettes, for 3 days straight.

I lived the weekend how I would of pre Covid. It was like Covid never existed.

I had to be tested 5 days after the festival, and I came back negative. I went with and met around 30 people, not one of us caught Covid.

Majority of us were double jabbed.

Kinda proves it’s incredibly safe.

And yet I barely leave the house (through choice not because I'm scared), my DD caught it at school and here I am with a positive feeling feeling quite unwell

If you have children at school then unfortunately that’s your likely vector for infection.
Not popping to the shops and getting out and about.

@Ifitquacks

I agree. I had covid back in January before I was even jabbed.

I had bad headaches for a week and I did feel crap. Fine after, so after surviving it without vaccination I feel perfectly safe.

There’s other things in my life that I don’t feel particularly safe about (like driving in my car in an area that is notorious for speeding drivers and police chases etc) but hey Ho that’s life.

I don’t know anyone in real life who is now concerned about covid. I had elderly relatives who were very worried which was understandable but even they’re at the stage where they need to live their lives, hell some haven’t got long left anyway.

I feel very safe. I have had both vaccinations. I am healthy. I am not elderly. I feel as safe as I did at every other stage of the pandemic. Safe in the knowledge that statistically I am 1.Quite unlikely to catch Covid. 2. Unlikely to become ill from catching Covid. 3. Very unlikely to be hospitalised from Covid and 4. Incredibly unlikely to die of it.

It's remarkable how many on MN had covid "just like a cold" back in Spring 2020 when it was impossible to get a test unless needing medical treatment.

@DumplingsAndStew

It's remarkable how many on MN had covid "just like a cold" back in Spring 2020 when it was impossible to get a test unless needing medical treatment.

You clearly haven’t noticed them, but there have also also many reporting long covid symptoms on the basis of an illness that wasn’t confirmed as covid via testing at the time. It was all guesswork back then

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

I don’t feel that safe. Will continue to avoid crowds indoors and wear a mask. Will not be going inside shops, pubs or restaurants. I’m my suburb, cases have been below 3 for months. They are currently at 12.

Seems like this is supported by the majority according to this poll.

That poll also says 19% of people would support a permanent curfew on leaving your house without good reasons, irrespective of Covid levels.

I've had two doses of Pfizer, so has DH. Not worried in the slightest and feel very safe. Cannot wait to ditch masks.

I don’t care about the curfew ones l was talking about masks.

That poll also says 19% of people would support a permanent curfew on leaving your house without good reasons, irrespective of Covid levels. hmm

Sounds OTT to me

Anyway if the masks one is correct 70% can still wear them, no problem

I feel quite safe, I was not living in fear before my jabs either to be honest.
I meet friends, but only small groups yet and prefer outdoors.
If going to eat out (not often) I’d rather book outdoors too if possible but wouldnt have anything against going indoors to a restaurant once in a while.
I take public transport for wok twice a week too and it doesnt bother me. I just try not to sit or stand next to or in front somebody not wearing a mask.

Anyway if the masks one is correct 70% can still wear them, no problem

Exactly this. It feels like the people complaining most about masks being made non compulsory are also the ones shouting loudest about everyone still wanting to wear masks. If that’s the case then great... the personal responsibility message is working and the majority will still wear masks. That’s the desired outcome, isn’t it!

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

I don’t care about the curfew ones l was talking about masks.

Some considerations regarding that and other similar polls

twitter.com/skepticalzebra/status/1413180045246541827

I feel as safe as I can be, double jabbed with AZ. Work in a huge high school, think I had Covid back in March before lockdown (2020). Felt rough for a few days, but if it was Covid, then it was a walk in the park compared to the Swine Flu I had 4 years previously.

Just trying to get through the next couple of weeks until the end of term. School very lax about cleaning/students following rules, etc., has been from the start. Had two large groups of students from different years sent home last week (one student had been sent in after having a positive home test, then dropped off to school after mum had taken him for his PCR test - you really couldn't make it up - he then got the positive notification middle of next day at school, which resulted in him, forty odd students and 4 members of staff going home. And his siblings in year 12 and 8.)

As far as the "freedom day" stuff - meh. I will continue to wear a mask if I'm out and about shopping, will do most shopping online though, and continue with the hand washing, hand gel, keeping my distance. What others do is their own affair. I have two elderly parents who depend on me, and I need to keep well for them.

I feel much safer, having been double-jabbed. I'm still cautious, avoiding crowds, keeping my distance, and respecting anyone who wants additional precautions. However, I've also been on trains, tube, and into central London. And, for those of you who are concerned about theatres - they're currently very safe, and will be moving very cautiously after the 19th in terms of changes, which I think will be well communicated to audiences. I'm firmly of the belief that we need to find a way of getting back closer to normal, and that a life where we shy away from human contact will cause more problems than it solves.

@CataclysmicVariable
Thank you for that. I'm also sceptical about how accurately these polls predict future behaviour. It's well-known that people often tell pollsters - even in completely anonymous polls - what they feel they 'ought' to say. Hence the 'shy Tory' phenonemon, and the failure to foresee the Trump victory.

Also, if 70% of people want mask wearing to continue, than 70% of mask wearing will continue, surely? Nobody is banned from wearing masks, it just won't be legally mandated after the 19th. It will be interesting to see to what extent people's actions matches their words.

I feel less likely to get Covid from passing someone in the supermarket, but still feel able to catch it from a family member or friend sitting in my front room with the windows closed. But as I don't feel immune from either scenario, I'll be wearing my mask after 19/7 to protect DD who is CV and been bedbound for 14 months since getting Covid last year.

This week double jabbed with AZ and feel as safe as can be right here right now.

That's plenty for me/us.

As safe as I am going to get and more scared that I will get a disease I probably would die of like cancer and not yet proper treatment because we are locked down.

@Wizzbangfizz

As safe as I am going to get and more scared that I will get a disease I probably would die of like cancer and not yet proper treatment because we are locked down.

I find this viewpoint fascinating. Do you think it's lockdown that's affecting cancer treatment then? And not the number of Covid-related cases and resulting pressure on the medical services?

What do you think will happen when we let loose and we have 100,000 Covid cases? That hospitals will open up and everything will get back to normal with treating other conditions? Will you feel more confident at getting treatment for any other disease you might get?

The waiting times for specialisms impacted by Long Covid such as cardiology and endocrinology are getting longer and longer. We pay privately for DD's cardiologist. His NHS waiting list is one year now because he's seeing so many patients who have resulting heart issues from Covid (which incidentally is also why we see him). This is going to get worse if 1 in 10 people who catch Covid are going to need to see a consultant and/or receive ongoing medical care.

Anyone who thinks removing restrictions is going to get everything back to normal is living in cloud cuckoo land.

@HelloMissus

Back in the old days here there was a brilliant poster. I’m thinking she was called Scottishmumny. Anyway she used to often point out that MN is just ‘words on a screen.’

Remember how much she hated the "creepy wee brackets" 🤣