What is going on?????

[Dustyboots]

Sorry, I know there’ve been countless threads discussing this sort of thing. But so far all I can find are people arguing about masks and smoking ...

What is our government doing? What are they up to? I’ve just seen a tweet with a German news report that says the UK is conducting a mass Covid experiment.

Is our government trying to crash the NHS in order to dismantle it?

What are they up to?

[quote Mrstreehouse]@neveradullmoment99 there’s a ventilation policy in all our local schools and mask wearing in secondary.[/quote]
Proper ventilation doesn't mean just opening a window. When it's not cold. Or windy. Or loud outside.

It's a bit hard to tell with Texas. It got slammed as a state back in the fall/early winter: the peak was almost 30,000 new cases per day. But they were also doing a lot more testing back then. At the moment, for instance, cases are up by about a third from last week, but tests are down a third. So it's hard to tell how it's actually playing out, because plenty of people are asymptomatic or don't report.

It's easier to follow deaths, and those are mercifully flat, in large part because the vast majority of the 65+ have been vaccinated. As a whole, 83% of those 65 and older have had at least one dose, and 74% are fully vaccinated.

As someone said upthread, the people going to hospital are almost all the unvaccinated. This stretches across age range, and it's horrible to see. The large-scale worry, of course, is that they unvaccinated will gin up a variant that escapes the vaccine.

PS: If you're curious about America, the NYTimes has made a series of amazing maps that really clarify things: www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases.html

Thank you so much, Nancy, for taking the time to reply with such straightforward, honest answers. Mumsnet can be so political that I never really know what to believe. But you're so rational in your responses.

So actually removing mitigation didn't really effect Texas too much? Wasn't there quite a lot of media outrage when some states did away with masks?

Also, I seem to remember there was some controversy about restaurants closing in NY and moving to Florida because of the lack of regulations on social distancing. Dud that happen in any numbers or was it just one or two high profile ones. It's always interesting to check back to see if what was reported was realistic or just sensationalism.

@DownSideUpped

Beebityboo

If you can get it more than once then surely they can't achieve herd immunity regardless of what they do?

Yes, correct. I keep saying this in other threads and then get called an uneducated idiot etc. Herd immunity relies on people being immune.

and seeing as a Coronavirus is a type of what we know as the common cold - we will never be immune anyway.

People are confusing it with a flu - which it isn't and also to which we will never be immune or something we can just be jabbed against like an MMR.

It's not going anywhere.

@vdbfamily

As I see it, people are being given back choice. Those that were not bothered or wearing masks before will carry on not wearing masks. Must sensible people will continue to wear them in crowded places. We all have a choice about whether we return to pubs and clubs etc and many will choose not to. I think we are doing right thing. Numbers are increasing yes but I work in a big trust and last I heard we had one Covid patient in ITU and they had not been vaccinated. However are wards are jam packed full of complex patients who have been stuck at home over a year, not getting the treatment they needed, not keeping up their mobility etc and they are then admitted very unwell and deconditioned generally. Not to mention the increase in Safeguarding cases, domestic abuse, mental health issues etc. There is no good solution here.

Exactly this.... the time is now! The country has had enough of being locked down. Enough is enough. We need to open up the country again. If we don't do it now, in summer, during the 6 week school holidays, then when can we?

High vaccination rates will give us freedom and choice.
Londoners ....get your vacs! WTF is this about low take-up in London.

It's my pleasure! I love data.

The short answer for Texas is that we don't know. Because testing is so much lower than it was a year ago, it's very possible that the numbers of those with Covid are far higher than reported. And we know there can be all sorts of longterm, hidden problems with those who catch Covid.

There certainly was media outrage, and in my opinion much of it was deserved. It wasn't just about lifting the statewide mask mandate, it was about refusing to allow any local governments to put their own mandates in place. Really a huge power grab by the governor, who makes a lot of lip service about government overreach but has very little problem interfering in local governmental decisions when it suits his agenda.

The issue here is that most of the big cities in Texas (Houston, Austin, El Paso, Dallas, San Antonio) are Democratic, while most of the state - and the governor - are Republican. So more or less what he was doing was undermining his political opponents to make a point to his constituents, while the big cities, many of whom had been hit very hard last fall, weren't allowed to put measures into place if they felt it necessary.

As for Florida/NY, I didn't hear that controversy. It's true that Florida lifted its requirements pretty early, which attracted some people and repelled others. (It's worth noting that Ron De Santis really, really wants to be president.)

The best comparison with Florida is probably California. Florida opened up abruptly; California had restrictions in place a lot longer, waiting for vaccines before opening up. For a while, it looked like the outcomes were going to be similar, which provoked a lot of articles about how opening up was the better call, because protection hurt the economy and didn't affect covid.

But those articles were written too soon. By this spring, it became clear that Florida had a much higher per capita infection rate than California did. In the past week, Florida has been about 3x higher than California in terms of cases.

I'm attaching two graphs here--you can see the difference. California has one super-high peak, and then it goes down, while Florida goes up and down over and over.

Now, this is cases, not deaths. But again, it's still indicative of a divergence in the way things were handled.

If you have any more questions, ask away! I really do love data.

If nothing else, it's a bad look that could effect the next election.

Dead people don't vote.

The age cohort who are almost all fully vaccinated tend to vote Tory.

Track and trace and 10 days self-isolation is really what’s going to affect the NHS and public services whilst they just “let it rip.”

I’m a vet and already we have so many staff off sick or self isolating that we are struggling to cope. I’m working 12-16 hour days. I fear the next month for the emergency services and the NHS if they are having issues anything like we are.

(PS anyone reading this please don’t give your vet a hard time if they can’t accommodate you as quickly as normal, we are trying our best and we have to prioritise the sickest animals).

@Golden2021

I read that the wave is coming and better now than in the autumn/winter.

Given we’re on our third wave in a year and a half, what make you think there won’t be an autumn/winter one as well? I am all for opening up, but just giving up and removing all restrictions including basic ones is foolhardy. I think Johnson is just bored with this now and that’s why the country is just going to become one giant petri dish.

I don't think that, just saying what I read as one of their reasonings.

@Nancydrawn
I love reading your posts!

@DumplingsAndStew I’m not sure what you mean? They definitely have their windows open in all weathers. I work in schools so know this first hand.

[quote Ra4940]@ProtectMaternity this sounds very concerning...I’m currently 19 weeks pregnant and dreading having to be in a hospital in the middle of winter! Are the nhs restrictions relaxing after July 19th too? E.g limited visiting on maternity wards and staff in PPE?[/quote]
So far I don’t know - they are waiting for updated guidance from NHS England. I very much doubt PPE will go and I would hope LFD tests will continue.

I speak to very distressed pregnant women and their families about the restrictions every day, which I completely understand, it’s awful to have such limited postnatal visiting times etc. But they genuinely don’t understand the threat to safe maternity care if many of the staff are off sick, and the NHS don’t want the public to know how worrying things are either (hence my name change!).

I was just wondering if this is a strange blip here or whether others are seeing the same.

[quote Mrstreehouse]@DumplingsAndStew I’m not sure what you mean? They definitely have their windows open in all weathers. I work in schools so know this first hand.[/quote]
Then all the schools in your local area that you work in them all are much more disciplined than most other schools.

Do you think opening windows is a fully effective "ventilation policy"? What do you suggest for those schools who can't open their windows?

If 71% think we should keep masks and mask wearing is optional then surely we're fine because 71% wearing masks should stop a big chunk of transmission.

I know I'll still wear a mask.

I live in London and we have 340 cases per 100,000 which is very high vs the national average. Only 35% double jabbed (it's a young borough) but only 12 in hospital out of 330,000.

Last Autumn 1 in 60 hospitalisation ended in death. Now it's 1 in 1000.

I realise there is some risk to opening up but on balance the changes makes sense. Better now than before winter.

All schools can open windows or doors. I don’t know what your point is.

@RonaLisa

What's going on, is the UK is going to 'let it rip', let the bodies pile up, let people die and become disabled

This is scaremongering codswallop.

Opening up is the first sensible decision this government has made in 18 months, if not full stop.

This is not my fault

@Mrstreehouse

All schools can open windows or doors. I don’t know what your point is.

There have been many teachers and school staff over the past year who have stated they can't open their windows as they are painted shut. Are they lying? Do they just not want to open them?

Most classroom doors open onto a corridor - often windowless. Where is the ventilation benefit in that?

Again, do you think opening windows is a fully effective "ventilation policy"?

@Codswallop20

😂😂😂

@ThinkAboutItTomorrow I think you live near me!

It’s not just age that’s driving the low take up. There’s generally a low level of take up across lots of London boroughs.

@Mrstreehouse

It's also worth considering in some schools that leaving internal doors open contravenes fire regulations.

They absolutely are lessening spread. Transmission is reduced. Why are people not hearing that?

They really don't seem to be though. In the height of the winter lockdown when deaths were at their highest since the start of the pandemic cases were sitting at around 150/100,000 where I am in Scotland, now that everyone is vaccinated cases are 10 x higher, currently over 1000 /100,000. The vaccines may reduce the likelihood of needing hospital treatment but they certainly haven't reduced spread.

Does anyone else think Boris is more bullish and controversial with the restrictions removal just to see how much it will take to kick him out?

I wonder if anyone in government is thinking beyond the few months when vaccines wear off, I know 3rd one is planned but the effects of vaccines vary in people with different immunity level and it's all done on some theoretical probability.

So I agree, it's a real life experiment.

@HoundLand

I agree. I am also in Scotland, and in our area 69% are double vaccinated, yet our cases are the highest they have been. That does not indicate a reduction in transmission.

Death and hospitalisation, perhaps, but transmission... no.

DumplingsAndStew and not just Scotland. Locally to me, nearly all cases I have heard about through personal contacts, schools, social media etc have been double jabbed. Add to that a lot of jabbed and double jabbed are still suffering ongoing issues with headaches, swollen joint and menstrual issues and possibly due to their immune systems going into overdrive. I don’t know many unvaccinated people other than my own family (we all had covid in March 2020) so I’m not aware of any unvaxxed in my local area who have covid. It seems odd (or maybe it doesn’t) that the press are pushing the notion that the majority of cases are in unvaxxed. I genuinely think those numbers are inflated due to the mass testing of school children. If they reported only cases in adults we might see a different picture.