What is going on?????

[Dustyboots]

Sorry, I know there’ve been countless threads discussing this sort of thing. But so far all I can find are people arguing about masks and smoking ...

What is our government doing? What are they up to? I’ve just seen a tweet with a German news report that says the UK is conducting a mass Covid experiment.

Is our government trying to crash the NHS in order to dismantle it?

What are they up to?

because the Delta is so transmissible, we would need 125% vaccinated to achieve herd immunity, that target is now out of reach, we cannot ever reach herd immunity with Delta even if kids were vaccinated.

@TheAbyss

because the Delta is so transmissible, we would need 125% vaccinated to achieve herd immunity, that target is now out of reach, we cannot ever reach herd immunity with Delta even if kids were vaccinated.

Where is your evidence of this? Stop scaremongering unless you can quote the FACTS!

How can you vaccinate 125%?

it is all over the news, not scaremongering
inews.co.uk/news/health/herd-immunity-will-never-be-reached-in-the-uk-but-covid-19-vaccine-protection-is-enough-1089971

@DownSideUpped I'm not vaccinated. I'm terrified but was building up the courage to do it. Now I'm not so sure. If so many double vaxxed people are catching Covid and unwell with it.

Also I'm wondering whether Boris and co have the knowledge that this variant sidesteps the vaccine - which is why they've given up and let us all free. That did make sense to me when I thought of that an hour ago. Now not so much now. I have to rush out - if it's clear to me a bit later on I'll explain a bit more.

@DownSideUpped

Vaccines.

90% of population vaccinated = herd immunity.

But vaccines aren’t giving immunity. They are potentially lessening severity but not stopping spread. I know of many teachers currently very unwell with covid yet double jabbed. Where’s the herd immunity if fully vaxxed are catching and presumably spreading?

"But vaccines aren’t giving immunity"

This is totally incorrect

Vaccines give a level of immunity which varies in the individual (it's not binary) and are reducing transmission and severity of coronavirus. Delta, as it is a different variant to which the vaccines were designed against, has reduced the level protection but hasn't negated it.

On a population-level, there will be significantly less transmission and serious illness in a vaccinated population, but this doesn't necessarily translate to the individual.

I'm not vaccinated. I'm terrified but was building up the courage to do it. Now I'm not so sure. If so many double vaxxed people are catching Covid and unwell with it.

@Dustyboots based on your posting history I'm sure if this is strictly true

If you genuinely had changed your mind and were thinking of getting it done, I certainly wouldn't let the fact that double vaccinated people are still ill with coronavirus stop you. This is exactly what we predicted would happen and isn't unsurprising when you consider the demographics of who is vaccinated in the UK.

@speckledostrichegg

What is your source that the vaccines are reducing transmission? If transmission was reducing, wouldn't cases be going down rather than up?

@Tealightsandd

What's going on, is the UK is going to 'let it rip', let the bodies pile up, let people die and become disabled.

The rest of the world is taking mitigation measures. Including masks.

Herd immunity doesn't happen unless and until majority (80-90%) are vaccinated. Catching it once doesn't stop you getting it again, particularly new strains.

The UK is dropping opening up with no mitigation measures when cases, hospitalisations (and, slowly but surely, deaths) are rising. The majority are not yet fully vaccinated, and vaccines aren't as effective against Delta (although still good).

The UK is creating high risk conditions for the development of a vaccine resistant strain.

Have a look at the let it rip thread. It's funny IMO and you have scored some great ones in this post alone

The objective is to give most a level of protection/immunity to
1/ reduce transmission
2/ prevent serious illness and hospital admission, NOT to stop people getting it forever.
GET YOUR VACCINES people !!!! And stop winding people up! Lets get out of this together.

[quote DumplingsAndStew]@speckledostrichegg

What is your source that the vaccines are reducing transmission? If transmission was reducing, wouldn't cases be going down rather than up?[/quote]
There is now a huge amount of evidence that vaccines reduce transmission from the UK and other countries- links and explanations have been posted repeatedly on here. If you do a search you will find these posts.

Here's one example from PHE: khub.net/documents/135939561/390853656/Impact+of+vaccination+on+household+transmission+of+SARS-COV-2+in+England.pdf/35bf4bb1-6ade-d3eb-a39e-9c9b25a8122a?t=1619601878136

Cases are increasing because we still have a large amount of the population either unvaccinated or single vaccinated.

@mathanxiety

If nothing else, it's a bad look that could effect the next election.

Dead people don't vote.

The age cohort who are almost all fully vaccinated tend to vote Tory.

True, dead people don't vote, but parents of children who have been experimented on vote, and dead people have lots of relatives,and friends that vote. And even if you don't know anyone who died, large death numbers affect people. I know it's unfashionable on mumsnet to say, but I don't believe people are inherently evil and uncaring and go out of their way to kill people - even a government that you don't agree with. I don't like the Chinese govt or the Hungarian govt, both pretty extreme, and I don't believe either governments of those countries wanted people to die.

Ha! The long awaited Technical Briefing 18 from PHE has been released today. Now, I would really love to see the same tables but excluding cases involving school children (unvaxxed by default) and then we’d be able to make better conclusions from the data, however....

10,834 cases in fully vaccinated people from which there have been 118 deaths, 116 in over 50s and 2 under 50. That is 109 deaths per 10,000 cases.

71932 unvaccinated cases... from which there have been 92 deaths, 71 over 50 and 21 under 50. That is nearly 13 people per 10,000 cases.

26495 cases in partially vaxxed, and 45 deaths, 41 of whom are over age 50. 17 deaths per 10,000.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1000678/Variants_of_Concern_VOC_Technical_Briefing_18.pdf

@StealthPolarBear

They absolutely are lessening spread. Transmission is reduced. Why are people not hearing that?

I keep saying this to posters who say otherwise. They never respond, so I assume that they prefer to stick to their agenda that the vaccines are ineffective.

That's because the fully vaxxed group are the oldest?

TheMawisbraw

It’s not the uk though just England, I’m in Scotland and thankfully masks and social distancing is here to stay even when we move to level 0

Oh good
That’s Scotland off the holiday travel list then
Is Wales any better
I fancy going to see the Welsh rellies later on in the summer but not if it’s going to be my worst nightmare

[quote DownSideUpped]Ha! The long awaited Technical Briefing 18 from PHE has been released today. Now, I would really love to see the same tables but excluding cases involving school children (unvaxxed by default) and then we’d be able to make better conclusions from the data, however....

10,834 cases in fully vaccinated people from which there have been 118 deaths, 116 in over 50s and 2 under 50. That is 109 deaths per 10,000 cases.

71932 unvaccinated cases... from which there have been 92 deaths, 71 over 50 and 21 under 50. That is nearly 13 people per 10,000 cases.

26495 cases in partially vaxxed, and 45 deaths, 41 of whom are over age 50. 17 deaths per 10,000.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1000678/Variants_of_Concern_VOC_Technical_Briefing_18.pdf[/quote]
But that suggests that more people die that are vaccinated?
Or am I reading this wrong?

Of course they do. Its because they are older.

@beigebrownblue your comment wasn't humor tho it was sarcastic

@neveradullmoment99 I think you are reading it right, but isn’t that because the unvaccinated are largely young who are very, very unlikely to die anyway?

neveradullmoment99

Yes, if you just look at the figures alone, however there are (according to the same figures) much fewer fully vaxxed testing positive, but of them 8 times more deaths than in the unvaxxed population.
We don’t have enough information to draw conclusions from it especially as we don’t know how many of the unvaxxed positives are asymptomatic and/or children.

I have seen a recent article somewhere saying that cases if fully vaxxed were no longer going to be reported, which if true would massively skew the figures. I think this may have related to the US though rather than the U.K.

SonnetForSpring

Of course they do. Its because they are older.

Do you have data to back that up? Most people I know are double jabbed and that includes 30-somethings upwards. As you hit the very elderly there are much fewer of them. If you look at ONS figures in conjunction with the PHE figures you will see that most deaths were in people with diabetes and/or heart disease, whether or not vaccinated.

I mean, there are much fewer people in that age bracket (not that there are fewer double jabbed).

think you are reading it right, but isn’t that because the unvaccinated are largely young who are very, very unlikely to die anyway?

Yes, which is why they should exclude under 18s from these figures. I haven’t read the small print but I assume these figures include under 18s.

@3luckystars Thanks!