Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Covid

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

What is going on?????

377 replies

Dustyboots · 08/07/2021 21:47

Sorry, I know there’ve been countless threads discussing this sort of thing. But so far all I can find are people arguing about masks and smoking ...

What is our government doing? What are they up to? I’ve just seen a tweet with a German news report that says the UK is conducting a mass Covid experiment.

Is our government trying to crash the NHS in order to dismantle it?

What are they up to?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
LucyLockdownLover · 08/07/2021 23:20

I dunno what's going on but it seems the govt wants to see how effective the vaccines are by letting it rip.

IRanSoFarAway1 · 08/07/2021 23:21

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

MakkaPakkas · 08/07/2021 23:21

Haven't America done the same thing in many states? How's it gone there? (Genuine question, I've not seen anything about it in the news)
Tbh, I think if we can't open up now when we have the vaccine when can we?

Earlydancing · 08/07/2021 23:22

But Doodlebug, you've lived for years with people inevitably dying of flu. Weren't the Labour Party OK with that? What's the difference?

redandwhite1 · 08/07/2021 23:23

Experimenting with lives....smart...

Nancydrawn · 08/07/2021 23:27

US vaccination rates vary enormously by state.

In states with high compliance, like most of the northeast, about 3/4 of adults are fully vaccinated (and about 85% have had at least one vaccine).

In states with low compliance, like the south, about 40% of the population is fully vaccinated (and under half have had one vaccine).

It also varies within states. There is a direct correlation between Trump voters and vaccine refusal. So, for instance, counties in west Mississippi voted for Biden; they have 18+ full vaccination rates mostly in the high 40s to high 50s percentiles. Counties in east Mississippi voted for Trump; they have full vaccination rates mostly in the low 30s to low 40s percentile. It's even more pronounced in states like Alabama (where some of the very Trumpy northern counties have full vaccination rates at 18%) and North Dakota (where the Trumpiest western counties have rates as low as 11%).

Some of these places will be spared a bit because they're so rural. The ND county with the 11% vaccination rate has about 800 people in it, and it's almost exactly the size of Gloucestershire.

But not only are vaccination rates very low in some of these southern states, but healthcare is terrible (most of them rejected the medicaid expansion for political reasons), comorbidities are high (in some states, about 3/4 are overweight or obese), the social safety net is thin (they've cut off the covid unemployment benefits), and the skepticism about covid is very very high.

So there's no masking, either. In many states, the vaccinated don't have to mask but the unvaccinated do. But the percentage of people who refuse the vaccine but will wear a mask is vanishingly slim.

And lots of people don't believe covid is real, still. If you want to get really, really mad, read this: www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/07/06/appalachian-covid-deniers-nurses-virginia/

suggestionsplease1 · 08/07/2021 23:27

For those saying it is an experiment - well it is really an experiment either way isn't it?

We experiment with continuing the restrictions and lockdowns, which is something we have never done before and we can not be 100% on the consequences of, or we experiment with ending the restrictions, which is something we have never fully done before and don't know 100% of the consequences of.

Every way forward in this new world is an experiment, with myriad untold consequences for both options.

The government are responsible for their decisions and consequences either way - it's not like it's just on them if they end the restrictions and more people die of Covid...it's on them if they continue restrictions and millions have increased mortality of all cause and decreased quality of life over the next 50 years.

I am guessing they have done as much work anticipating outcomes as they can, and are now at the point where the latter is bigger overall harm to the population.

It's maybe like the 'trolley problem' dilemma....they have flicked the switch that will cause the trolley on the track hurtling towards 10 people to be diverted onto the second track so that it kills one person...but in doing so they have saved those 10 other lives.

No deaths was not a possible outcome.

IRanSoFarAway1 · 08/07/2021 23:28

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Mrstreehouse · 08/07/2021 23:29

@neveradullmoment99 there’s a ventilation policy in all our local schools and mask wearing in secondary.

foxandbee · 08/07/2021 23:29

The UK could wait a few weeks, until everyone is vaccinated

It is only England which is undertaking this experiment. The rest of the UK is waiting a little longer.

Tealightsandd · 08/07/2021 23:29

@MakkaPakkas

Haven't America done the same thing in many states? How's it gone there? (Genuine question, I've not seen anything about it in the news) Tbh, I think if we can't open up now when we have the vaccine when can we?
America is using mostly Pfizer and Moderna (with a smaller number of Johnson and Johnson). 99.2% of vaccinated Americans aren't getting sick.

The Delta strain is hitting America's unvaccinated. In the states with low vaccine take up.

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jul/08/fears-of-new-us-covid-surge-as-delta-spreads-and-many-remain-unvaccinated

Separately, America took a lot more mitigation measures than here. Including in many states schools closed for up to a year. I'm not suggesting we necessarily should have done the same, I don't know, but we definitely can't expect to now be in a similar position to America.

Masks are recommended outdoors as well as inside in America.

IRanSoFarAway1 · 08/07/2021 23:32

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

neveradullmoment99 · 08/07/2021 23:32

@MakkaPakkas

Haven't America done the same thing in many states? How's it gone there? (Genuine question, I've not seen anything about it in the news) Tbh, I think if we can't open up now when we have the vaccine when can we?
When more people have been double jabbed.
Changemaname1 · 08/07/2021 23:33

Yeh I have family in America and things have been fairly relaxed for a while now seems to be going ok which makes me feel like england aren’t exactly the first to do this And maybe it will be ok ? however I’m not sure if the delta variant Is over there ?

neveradullmoment99 · 08/07/2021 23:34

[quote Mrstreehouse]@neveradullmoment99 there’s a ventilation policy in all our local schools and mask wearing in secondary.[/quote]
Yes, there are policies. Open the windows/doors is ours!
I'm referring to proper ventilation systems.

neveradullmoment99 · 08/07/2021 23:35

@Changemaname1

Yeh I have family in America and things have been fairly relaxed for a while now seems to be going ok which makes me feel like england aren’t exactly the first to do this And maybe it will be ok ? however I’m not sure if the delta variant Is over there ?
There is now an uptick with the delta variant. Only starting to show effects now.
HoppingHamster · 08/07/2021 23:35

I’m torn.

On one hand, I have always supported lockdowns and have at times been terrified by covid. However, I do think that if ever there was a time to try lifting restrictions it’s now. It’s summer, schools are breaking up and we have a good proportion of the population with antibodies. I’ll make my own decisions over that time as to how much risk I take (eg I won’t be going to crowded places and will be wearing masks).

On the other hand, despite being a former lifelong Tory voter I have a deep distrust for this disastrous govt and everything it stands for. At every point they’ve made the worst possible decisions, but my gravest concern is the lack of humanity and empathy in their narrative. They don’t care about people, they care about things (jobs, economy, healthcare provision). They are driven by exceptionalism, and the only people they are trying to please are the backbenchers, media and donors who keep them in power, which begs the question…

What’s their agenda?

MrsIsobelCrawley · 08/07/2021 23:36

The unofficial policy here is to 'let it rip' through our children and teens and this policy has been in place for quite some time.

The government here has no intention of vaccinating under 18s. This is not the policy elsewhere as many countries such as the US, Canada, Germany, etc. are vaccinating teens to try and avoid having teens contract covid.

Our government has been happy to encourage increasing numbers of cases in children and teens. The UK has over 30,000 daily cases, predominantly in younger people, and rising rapidly. Our daily case rate in the UK is above 400 per million and this rate is now over 50 times that of Germany (7.44) and 30 times that of Canada (12.46).

If 20-30% of our teens experience long term health problems as a result of contracting the virus, this is not Johnson's concern. Johnson doesn't intend remaining PM for long and he needs short term gains such as removal of compulsory masks.

However, hundreds of thousands of teens with long term health issues will be a major concern for the long term viability of the NHS.

What is going on?????
Mrstreehouse · 08/07/2021 23:36

@Tealightsandd I have friends in America, they hadn’t been wearing masks for a while. It’s been pretty relaxed where they are and they’ve had kids in school. Varies massively from state to state so you can’t make such sweeping statements concerning mitigation measures.

neveradullmoment99 · 08/07/2021 23:36

@HoppingHamster

I’m torn.

On one hand, I have always supported lockdowns and have at times been terrified by covid. However, I do think that if ever there was a time to try lifting restrictions it’s now. It’s summer, schools are breaking up and we have a good proportion of the population with antibodies. I’ll make my own decisions over that time as to how much risk I take (eg I won’t be going to crowded places and will be wearing masks).

On the other hand, despite being a former lifelong Tory voter I have a deep distrust for this disastrous govt and everything it stands for. At every point they’ve made the worst possible decisions, but my gravest concern is the lack of humanity and empathy in their narrative. They don’t care about people, they care about things (jobs, economy, healthcare provision). They are driven by exceptionalism, and the only people they are trying to please are the backbenchers, media and donors who keep them in power, which begs the question…

What’s their agenda?

I don't get this 'Its summer' It is not a seasonal illness.

Totally agree about the Tories. They have made the worst decisions.

Changemaname1 · 08/07/2021 23:37

@neveradullmoment99 ah I see did wonder if it would change things if that variant made it over there

SirVixofVixHall · 08/07/2021 23:37

How much longer does immunity take to build up with AZ compared with Pfizer ? I have had AZ. I am now five weeks post vaccine number 2., weeks of worrying about the risks of the vaccine, and now worry that I am not even well protected.

neveradullmoment99 · 08/07/2021 23:39

@SirVixofVixHall

How much longer does immunity take to build up with AZ compared with Pfizer ? I have had AZ. I am now five weeks post vaccine number 2., weeks of worrying about the risks of the vaccine, and now worry that I am not even well protected.
Noone seems to know for sure. They say after the second week of the Az but with the AZ immunity continues to build, or so I have read, which is a good thing.
neveradullmoment99 · 08/07/2021 23:40

Sorry meant to add, 2 wks after the AZ

beigebrownblue · 08/07/2021 23:40

@Dustyboots

Sorry, I know there’ve been countless threads discussing this sort of thing. But so far all I can find are people arguing about masks and smoking ...

What is our government doing? What are they up to? I’ve just seen a tweet with a German news report that says the UK is conducting a mass Covid experiment.

Is our government trying to crash the NHS in order to dismantle it?

What are they up to?

Your first instinct is spot on.

Yes, and they are.

Yes and would say yes again, they are not interested in public health.

They can afford private care. Why should they care about those who can't?

They don't.

And personally I wouldn't describe them as 'our' government.

I didn't vote for them and neither did thousands of others.