What is going on?????

[Dustyboots]

Sorry, I know there’ve been countless threads discussing this sort of thing. But so far all I can find are people arguing about masks and smoking ...

What is our government doing? What are they up to? I’ve just seen a tweet with a German news report that says the UK is conducting a mass Covid experiment.

Is our government trying to crash the NHS in order to dismantle it?

What are they up to?

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jul/08/fears-of-new-us-covid-surge-as-delta-spreads-and-many-remain-unvaccinated

www.wsj.com/amp/articles/delta-covid-19-variant-is-dominant-u-s-strain-cdc-data-show-11625695319

The mRNA vaccines remain highly effective. It's possible the UK might need to give Pfizer or Moderna boosters to AZ people. Or it could just be a matter of time. AZ takes longer to build up protection.

The majority are not yet fully vaccinated

As of yesterday 64.9% of the UK population have had both vaccines. 86.6% have had a first dose.

That's a lot of people!

Forgot to say we are also testing a lot more people, which is good if those people are willing to self isolate if positive.

those percentages are for the adult population - but are still very high

@DownSideUpped

Cases among the unvaccinated population, US:
www.cnbc.com/2021/07/08/covid-vaccines-nearly-all-deaths-hospitalizations-among-unvaccinated.html
White House covid spokesman and CDC head speaking on rates of infection.

www.mcknights.com/news/clinical-news/large-va-study-reveals-ease-of-covid-19-transmission-among-unvaccinated-healthcare-staff/
A spring 2021 study has found nearly 20 times the rate of COVID-19 infection in unvaccinated healthcare staff, plus signs that transmission clusters were linked to those workers.

The results mirror recent nursing home studies that have found similar evidence to support COVID-19 vaccination.

Investigators examined the incidence and clinical characteristics of COVID-19 in more than 5,600 personnel at the Cleveland Veterans Administration Medical Center from February 1, 2021, through May 15, 2021. COVID-19 cases were confirmed using nasal swab samples and reverse transcriptase polymerase chain reaction tests.

Overall, fully vaccinated personnel were 19 times less likely than unvaccinated personnel to be diagnosed with COVID-19. In 14 weeks of follow-up, 6% of 1,408 the unvaccinated employees were diagnosed with COVID-19 versus 0.3% of 4,222 vaccinated employees, reported senior author Curtis J. Donskey, M.D., and colleagues.

The vaccinated workers who became infected had mild cases with no hospitalizations. They all reported being in situations that had put them at high risk of contagion. Five said that they had been exposed to infected family members, two said they were exposed in the community, and one was exposed to an unvaccinated coworker with COVID-19.

Close and frequent contact with infected, unvaccinated individuals has been shown to present a substantial risk to vaccinated individuals, the authors noted. In fact, unvaccinated workers in the Cleveland VA Medical Center were the suspected source for four clusters of infections involving 17 employees, the investigators reported.

Sorry to C&P.

I can't believe the British government is making masks optional.

What they're doing is criminal. They're turning the UK into a rogue state.

@Jaxhog

It will be absolute carnage within 4-6 weeks.

I'm staying away from crowds and wearing my mask; regardless of what everyone else is doing.

i presume you are wearing your mask to protect others...

Medical epidemiologist here, and NHS patient who had two surgeries in the middle of a pandemic with more urgent procedures to come very soon. Our economy cannot afford anymore hits. Vaccination is a good thing and we cannot save everyone. Lockdown wasn't about saving people; it was slowing the onslaught on the NHS and private sector health care systems. In pandemic times you cannot save everyone and we should be dazzled that a vaccine can be provided so quickly to a whole population. You have to balance lockdown saving lives vs. free movement saving small traders jumping off a cliff. The revenue cannot keep dishing out grants as our great great grandchildren will be paying for that. We have to be pragmatic. We have a vaccine system which works most of the time. We have an economically-active population who need jobs to feed and house themselves, and for mental health reasons need to feel productive and outside the home. Children need educating. We all need a holiday. All that requires opening up the country and lowering restrictions. I am personally more worried about the burden of unemployment and certain sectors being unable to function due to lack of job applicants (like farming and catering), than COVID-19. I should add that I am still on the clinically vulnerable shielding list, despite two jabs. From a body that would most likely die of COVID-19 if I became susceptible, I still urge Boris to open up the country for the sake of more-healthy people and on the basis of evidence-based science.

@Tinysalmonswimminginastream

The majority are not yet fully vaccinated

As of yesterday 64.9% of the UK population have had both vaccines. 86.6% have had a first dose.

That's a lot of people!

According to some we seemingly have to wait until 100% of people have been vaccinated. And then had boosters. And then had the booster the year after. Vaccinations are a game changer, before it was not like flu as in it was a novel virus we knew nought about and had zero natural immunity to. The world now knows a lot about effective treatment, sadly won't work for all but will work for a lot more people than it did last year, and within populations there is a level of immunity. Not sure where this energy is for those with weakened immune systems during flu seasons, or when hospitals are overwhelmed often over winter.

@Earlydancing

I am sympathetic to people wanting to keep things as they are, I'm even leaning that way myself, but at what point do we get back to normal? Do we wait til everyone has had 2 jabs? But then scientists will say we need to wait til everyone's had a booster. And then there'll be another variant so best stay in lockdown to see how the virus responds to that. Then people will be needing 2 jabs again. I mean it will never end. The virus is here, it's never going away, it's going to carry on killing like flu does, meanwhile businesses are failing because they can't get customers, people lose their jobs, their houses, sometimes their mental health. So at what point do people think, ok now is the right time? I just don't know.

there will never be a right time, there can only be a least worst time

and I'm comfortable that that time is now

It looks like a “stealth” or unofficial herd immunity survival of the fittest and or long Covid experiment. The Covidiot government is switching to experimental public health psychology coercive control rather than mandatory instructions so it could distance itself from any likely armageddon Covid nuclear fallout. So that it will be our fault for the public lack of optional decriminalised civic duty of care to implement globally accepted Covid best safety practice of vaccinate - hands - face - space - trace - workplace. The NHS may also be reorganised and semi privatised too!

@scoobydoo1971

Medical epidemiologist here, and NHS patient who had two surgeries in the middle of a pandemic with more urgent procedures to come very soon. Our economy cannot afford anymore hits. Vaccination is a good thing and we cannot save everyone. Lockdown wasn't about saving people; it was slowing the onslaught on the NHS and private sector health care systems. In pandemic times you cannot save everyone and we should be dazzled that a vaccine can be provided so quickly to a whole population. You have to balance lockdown saving lives vs. free movement saving small traders jumping off a cliff. The revenue cannot keep dishing out grants as our great great grandchildren will be paying for that. We have to be pragmatic. We have a vaccine system which works most of the time. We have an economically-active population who need jobs to feed and house themselves, and for mental health reasons need to feel productive and outside the home. Children need educating. We all need a holiday. All that requires opening up the country and lowering restrictions. I am personally more worried about the burden of unemployment and certain sectors being unable to function due to lack of job applicants (like farming and catering), than COVID-19. I should add that I am still on the clinically vulnerable shielding list, despite two jabs. From a body that would most likely die of COVID-19 if I became susceptible, I still urge Boris to open up the country for the sake of more-healthy people and on the basis of evidence-based science.

If this is so why is no other country taking this path??

likely armageddon Covid nuclear fallout.

Oh for fuck sake listen to yourself.

@Tinysalmonswimminginastream

The majority are not yet fully vaccinated

As of yesterday 64.9% of the UK population have had both vaccines. 86.6% have had a first dose.

That's a lot of people!

The adult population.

The majority of the total UK population is not yet vaccinated.

And, AZ is only 60% effective against Delta. It's still good, but it's definitely not enough when opening up before majority vaccinated, with no mitigation measures whatsoever, whilst cases are going up and up and up.

AZ needs time to build up protection. As we're not allowing that, the risk increases of a vaccine resistant strain developing.

We might need to give mRNA boosters to AZ people, the way we're going. When we get more supply.

www.independent.co.uk/news/health/leeds-cancer-surgery-coronavirus-nhs-b1879646.html

Cancer patients at one of England’s largest hospital trusts have had their surgeries cancelled after rising numbers of coronavirus patients, which senior medics said was “affecting all our wards everywhere

The consequences of 'letting it rip'.

If this is so why is no other country taking this path??

Places like the US are more tolerable towards different rules. They have had different guidance for the double vaccinated for a little while now, ie no masks or social distancing required, but here people would stamp their feet and say omg that's not fair1!! So we have the choice of either changing the guidance for everyone or for no one.

Didn't they do the same thing in a few states in the USA where masks were dropped entirely and restaurants were open during the time most countries were in full lockdown. Apparently the numbers didn't skyrocket as feared but maybe there were other variables at play such as population density etc.

That was before the Delta variant arrived. Delta is far more contagious than the previous variants, and now accounts for roughly 80% of all new cases in parts of the Midwest and upper mountain states, according to early CDC data.
www.cnbc.com/2021/07/08/covid-vaccines-nearly-all-deaths-hospitalizations-among-unvaccinated.html

If they do backtrack i bet it wont be until after Sunday

@Realitea

It’s a gamble. We’re the first to take it. It’ll either pay off or go horribly wrong. With enough people vaccinated can we rely on it to get back to normal? Everyone’s had enough of the measures to stop the spread aswell. Boris knows he’s losing them. Compliance is just gone. What else can we do? It’s very worrying

some people are "bored of it all now" with regard to measures to stop the spread of covid. They are loud and don't seem to understand science very well. JOhnson is a compulsive and pathological liar. He doesn't give a shit about anyone.

The UK could wait a few weeks, until everyone is vaccinated. Tories can't be arsed with that, so they plan to open everything up. Cases are climbing, and the Delta variant appears to be driving that increase. So what do the Tories do? Plan to leave you all to it, so they can blame you when it all goes wrong.

They know what they're doing. They've got scores of you saying, "it's inevitable that people wil die because of this". They don't need anything else. They already have you by the short and curlies. It's okay for people to die, so they can do what they please.

@MercyBooth

If they do backtrack i bet it wont be until after Sunday

Well no it won't because they're going to do the briefing on Monday, which tends to come after Sunday.

@TheMawisbraw

It’s not the uk though just England, I’m in Scotland and thankfully masks and social distancing is here to stay even when we move to level 0

I am so so relieved. Fingers crossed N.S. sticks to it.

@scoobydoo1971

Medical epidemiologist here, and NHS patient who had two surgeries in the middle of a pandemic with more urgent procedures to come very soon. Our economy cannot afford anymore hits. Vaccination is a good thing and we cannot save everyone. Lockdown wasn't about saving people; it was slowing the onslaught on the NHS and private sector health care systems. In pandemic times you cannot save everyone and we should be dazzled that a vaccine can be provided so quickly to a whole population. You have to balance lockdown saving lives vs. free movement saving small traders jumping off a cliff. The revenue cannot keep dishing out grants as our great great grandchildren will be paying for that. We have to be pragmatic. We have a vaccine system which works most of the time. We have an economically-active population who need jobs to feed and house themselves, and for mental health reasons need to feel productive and outside the home. Children need educating. We all need a holiday. All that requires opening up the country and lowering restrictions. I am personally more worried about the burden of unemployment and certain sectors being unable to function due to lack of job applicants (like farming and catering), than COVID-19. I should add that I am still on the clinically vulnerable shielding list, despite two jabs. From a body that would most likely die of COVID-19 if I became susceptible, I still urge Boris to open up the country for the sake of more-healthy people and on the basis of evidence-based science.

Rubbish. You are lying. We need to vaccinate more people asap and lid restrictions less abruptly.

@Noterook, yes there are tiered rules. It's very hard to enforce them though.

In many communities, continued mask requirements in local businesses are fully supported, and customers don't question individual rules. They tend to be in 'blue' areas.

There are parts of the US where businesses insisting on masks for customers would be boycotted, sadly.

Looking at other countiries, its harder to compare.
With America, although they have opened up, they have put some mitigations in place like ventilation in schools and I think in other places. Whereas the UK have done NOTHING.