Feeling so low about this new world of vaccines

[blue12345]

Just wondering if anyone else is in the same boat as me? For many reasons, I've decided not to get the Covid vaccine. I' have all my vaccines and all my kids are vaccinated. I state this to show I'm not an anti-vaxxer, although I increasingly feel like one.

I'm feeling very isolated from my friends and family as a result of this. Everyone I meet asks me am I booked in yet, am I double-vaccinated. I don't bother getting into conversations about it , but it still causes me anxiety and has led to friction. A very close friend has asked me a few times have I got an appointment for my vaccine yet and I've tried to brush her off, as I think she will be unlikely to want to spend time around me after she finds out I'm not getting it. I've also found that lots of friends have cut back on their contact with me.

I am very comfortable with my decision, but I'm just so sad that we now live in a world where the segregation of vaccinated and unvaccinated people is allowed, in both interpersonal relations and also looking more and more likely that services like restaurants and travel will be similarly restricted.

@TheDevils What did I say was a conspiracy theory?! I'm just stating the mortality statistics.

Here is a link to to the BMJ article, from a palliative care consultant.

www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n314/rr-2

The NHS are already cancelling cancer surgeries again due to the spike in COVID cases. Friends told previously to shield are having to go back to staying at home. If we don’t use simple low risk measures like vaccination to control the outbreak, a range of people suffer one way or another.

No I don’t feel that way. I feel incredibly grateful that science has enabled a vaccine to save many thousands of lives. My uncle sounds similar to you. Hasn’t had the vaccine but then feels incredibly down about it all.

You’re either comfortable with your decision or you’re not. Sounds like you’re not.

Why is no one commenting on the numerous people on this thread who have given examples of vaccine side effects?

Everyone just skips over that.

As I've said repeatedly, if I really was as selfish as you are all saying, I wouldn't have bothered vaccinating any of my kids or myself. I wouldn't bother giving blood, as there is a risk to myself.

But I do those things. So I'm not some selfish person, I am just being cautious for a vaccine that in my eyes, is more of a risk to me than catching Covid would. It's not just about me, it's about my kids having a healthy mother and I have to make my risk assessment based on the information before me.

[quote blue12345]@TheDevils What did I say was a conspiracy theory?! I'm just stating the mortality statistics.

Here is a link to to the BMJ article, from a palliative care consultant.

www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n314/rr-2[/quote]
Your comments about the media ..... not to mention your very callous comments about age.

Try saying all of this to my friends who work for the NHS. You'd get short shrift.... and rightly so.

I'm very grateful that the vaccine means it is at least a little bit safer for my 80 year old grandparents.

@TheDevils I'm quoting a consultant who works in the NHS. She is the one writing about perspective on the age of Covid deaths.

Why is no one commenting on the numerous people on this thread who have given examples of vaccine side effects?

Everyone just skips over that.

Nobody skips over that. It's called understanding risk and the fact is the risks are very very low.

Please be honest with your friends about your unvaccinated status. Yes it is your choice to make, but own that choice.

I understand you're sad and disappointed, but the consequences are bigger. If you lie about it, people who are vulnerable/in contact with the vulnerable could genuinely die. E.g. CEV children haven't had any chance of protection yet.

Being completely honest, if Covid had killed millions of children and young people, I would stick a rusty needle in my arm to protect them. To me , that would be worth the greater good. Even if the median age of death had been 60, I would still think it was taking it away people in their prime. But with a median age of death of 81 for men and 85 for women , to me, it is not asmuch of a public health crisis as the media has led us to believe.

So this is a consultants opinion not yours?

@oohmethumb

The vaccine does not make you less likely to catch Covid. Nobody scientific has ever said it does. It changes the way your body deals with it when you get it. That's how vaccines work.

www.gov.uk/government/news/one-dose-of-covid-19-vaccine-can-cut-household-transmission-by-up-to-half

Studies have already demonstrated that being vaccinated against coronavirus (COVID-19) significantly reduces your risk of being infected.

This new research shows that those who do become infected 3 weeks after receiving one dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech or AstraZeneca vaccine were between 38% and 49% less likely to pass the virus on to their household contacts than those who were unvaccinated.

None of my highly educated and professional friends have refused the vaccine OP. Some of us have had strong side effects, but would do it again, despite the side effects. It is the main stream and right thing to do for society as a whole.
I do know some who have thus far refused, they are the hippy types, always on Facebook reading some weird theory; some have tattoos etc./clean living stuff etc. They are not main stream, each to their own.

However, I will be honest and say that I do judge them at this point. Yes, there are some side effects and long term minute risks but benefits outweigh. I have a lot of French friends who were on the fence too but they are gradually getting the vaccine too now. Rhetoric there was different initially. U.K./US are very trigger happy when it comes to vaccines.
Why don’t you look at the WHO website and check how many vaccines have been administered. It is an incredible amount.

@TheDevils No, the point about kids and young adults is my perspective on it.

I would definitely get vaccinated if they were dying.

Why do you think this consultant is palliative care is asking for people to think about how elderly and infirm the vast, vast majority of Covid deaths are? I imagine she has plenty of knowledge in this field.

@Sunnyfreezesushi Believe or or not, I am an educated professional. I don't use Facebook, I read vast amounts, from a wide variety of reputable sources. The information is all freely available on government websites too, with lots of information that the media don't put into their headlines.

If children were dying, you would be too late to vaccinate.
And the more variants you let circulate (actively choosing not to take a vaccine) the more chances the virus has to mutate

The side effects of the vaccines are trivial when compared with the harms to the wider population caused by letting the virus get out of control. When COVID rates rise, NHS resources become more stretched and other services suffer. Why is that so hard for you to understand? The BMJ article you quoted states that:

2020 saw a 76% reduction in patients presenting to primary care with suspected cancer, 5000 fewer heart attack patients presenting to emergency departments and we do not know the impact on suicides due to delays in inquests in 2020.

[quote blue12345]@TheDevils No, the point about kids and young adults is my perspective on it.

I would definitely get vaccinated if they were dying.

Why do you think this consultant is palliative care is asking for people to think about how elderly and infirm the vast, vast majority of Covid deaths are? I imagine she has plenty of knowledge in this field. [/quote]
And I'm afraid I judge you harshly for that view.

We all know that the elderly and those with underlying medical issues are at most risk from dying but we don't fully know the implications of long covid on the young and previously fit and well.
I know a lot of young people who have had covid (I work at a university) and I've seen young, healthy students still suffering months and months later.

@thefamous5

I would assume you're selfish if there are no medical reasons and I don't want to associate with anyone who is selfish, so I wouldn't be friends with you anymore

I find it really odd some people would break friendships over this

How dare you try and dictate what someone puts into their body. It's really rude

I have take a vaccine but would never behave like this about other people.

You should be respectful of peoples personal rights to making their own decisions.

Oh and one of my students (in her 20's) nearly died. She now has a serious heart condition which has caused her to drop out of uni because she can't even shower herself.

This is not just about old people dying.

As I've said repeatedly, if I really was as selfish as you are all saying, I wouldn't have bothered vaccinating any of my kids or myself. I wouldn't bother giving blood, as there is a risk to myself.

Well it just seems you're being incredibly inconsistent. It's a bit like a drink-driver saying "well at least I don't take drugs and drive, or text behind the wheel!" and expecting people to understand.

In some ways your willingness to take every other vaccine makes it worse! It's not like you have an ethical reason or worldview for not taking the vaccine.

As for the risk that the vaccine is worse than Covid... where did you get that idea?

OP I don't think you really need to engage with people on here who want you to justify why you don't want the vaccine, ultimately it is your choice, but I hope you can see now why your friends and family are treating you differently based on your decision. You might feel like you are still the same person, but to them you are clearly not the person that they thought you were.

We have been repeatedly told that the vaccine is they way out of this mess, and other people can see you are not playing your part as you seem to be saying that you alone are far too important in your children's lives not to take a minuscule risk that many other parents have willingly taken.

As a PP has just said, all of my friends who are highly qualified medical practitioners (senior consultants etc) have had the vaccines without hesitation. That's good enough for me.

If you choose not to have it, that's up to you, but as others have said, it would make me view you differently. Friend of mine was one of the lead consultants on the covid ward at our local hospital. She takes a very dim view of those not getting vaccinated. Blithering idiot is probably the kindest interpretation of this...

Maybe it is not all about deaths.
You got the polio vaccine for your DC, no polio outbreak in this country for 45 years. Similar death rate and asymptomatic rate as covid. Why? They weren't at risk.

We vaccinate to reach herd immunity.
You chose to leave the herd, it is a bit sad, it was your choice.
Vaccines work at a societal level, you chose to diverge from society. And now you are really low because society is diverging from you?
What are you planning to do about this?

[quote blue12345]@TheDevils No, the point about kids and young adults is my perspective on it.

I would definitely get vaccinated if they were dying.

Why do you think this consultant is palliative care is asking for people to think about how elderly and infirm the vast, vast majority of Covid deaths are? I imagine she has plenty of knowledge in this field. [/quote]
For me, the problem hasn't been kids dying (obviously, as very few have) but it is everything else that you are ignoring.

I have students with long COVID. I have students who have been seriously ill in hospital. I have students who have lost their parent TO COVID, not because they are old and frail; their body becomes overwhelmed, their organs fail and they die - even 1 a few weeks ago. Not vaccinated as they caught it months ago, before they could be vaccinated. I have thousands of students disrupted as the virus keeps spreading; only vaccination will stop this. We have also lost a teacher younger than me in our MAT. He caught it from work.

On a personal note; I lost my uncle. Previously healthy, loved fell running, caught it at work. My DP was hospitalised 3 times, currently struggling to work full time and caught it from a student. Our daughter and I caught it from DP; both still not right, DD17 has continuing digestive issues and a range of food intolerances now after nearly a month of horrific digestive symptoms. We caught this in February, so this is long lasting. I have colleagues and family (mostly NHS) who have caught COVID, been vaccinated twice and then gone on to catch COVID again. They are still ill.

I do not want COVID again, I do not want to pass it on to someone else and potentially kill them, and that is what I cannot understand about your stance.

I don’t think anyone is dictating what others puts into their body and their decisions are theirs to make, but equally, we don’t have to respect someone’s offensive views and have a right to choose our friendships.

*Why is no one commenting on the numerous people on this thread who have given examples of vaccine side effects?

Everyone just skips over that.*

Personally I take internet anecdotes about serious vaccine side effects with a massive pinch of salt. We know for sure that any serious side effects are incredibly rare, yet you, a person literally posting to complain about how you’ve no mates, know three people who’ve had them. Okay then.